Brad, all that sounds superb if everyone here was you. but the reality is that no one here is you or treetog or Alexandrie or Pixtudio. We are not graphic designers, or have the ability to create suits or make skins at the level of some of the great skinners in this site. As a matter of fact, most of the people that contribute in this website are just starting to experiment with 2D, 3D and vector programs. You and all the skinners that have been doing this for years or that have some type of degree on either computer or graphics, can easily say-- "Well I can do this and that"- but that would prove to be extreamly hard for the rest or majority of artist here.
And is funny that you would mention that people confuse Good Wallpaper with Good Art, because a good wallpaper is a good piece of art. You also say that a Good Wallpaper is something you can use. Well, maybe you CANT find any use for a lot of the wallpapers here, but many will share a different oppinion.

MadIce, I cant share your point of view. I dont think this is an issue of artist thinking moderators have a hidden agenda against them. I think is more of an issue about artists not comfortable with the respond they get when exposing a topic. Some one makes a comment about how poorly the quality of designs been accepted and the response they get from staff members and management is --If you dont like it, tuff. And if you dont like the way we run things, get the hell out--
I mean, you would think that a website with the magnitude and popularity such as WC would be more polite about how things are handled.

Oh well, this thread will die soon and be forgotten, but the issue will arise again, simply because no solution is ever found.


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Regardless of what the people with an axe to grind have said above, this IS a great site, quite possibly one the best there is, and so, constantly whining and bitching about it will only put it's future in jeapordy, which I am sure would suit the axe grinders, but we know who they are and we don't worry about them, believe me. It's the general population of the site that is important to us, and that is most of you reading this, so just get real, remember that WinCustomize is a FUN thing, and go and hone those skills. Thanks for listening, have a good day.

BoXXi what you've said is very true, indeed

I'm glad you agree John. I'm just trying to be the voice of reason.

Yes this is a great site,thats why we give a damn about the way things are done here.This place is special and any form of whining we do just means we care.Whats wrong with a logged in member dl count determining which walls stay?Seems completely fair and the admins and moderators wouldnt have to accept or reject anything.

If you dont like it, tuff. And if you dont like the way we run things, get the hell out--I mean, you would think that a website with the magnitude and popularity such as WC would be more polite about how things are handled.

Agreed. I had the same impression when reading Frogboy's post #46. The interests of management and the interest of skinners/artists/WCers are clearly not the same, but there is no reason to get rude about it.

I wish there was a way to discuss this issue without the obvious negativity taking over.  The fact is, we all use wallpapers. So it stands to reason we all like wallpapers. There's no argument on that point. Personally I love getting new wallpapers, I change mine pretty frequently. In fact, the volume of good wallpapers is one reason I don't make them any more, I don't need to.

The moderation issues are a no win for us. As Jafo and BoxXXi pointed out, we get melodrama from the members if we're too strict ("I'm leaving!") and we get melodrama from the members if we're too lenient ("All the good artists have left!").  You don't seem to realize how often we hear this and how frustrating it is to try to fix it.

Brad recently said we would stop moderating walls so the complaints would stop and people would stop leaving in a huff. The decision was to continue moderating (trust me, you need this) but to relax the standards slowly (so it wouldn't become another drama on the message board) and eventually just let most everything in and rely on ratings to filter it. Should make everyone happy eh?

apparently not.

Know this - we love you guys, we appreciate everyone's effort, we try REALLY HARD to be fair in moderating and we consider all of you, especially those of you who contribute to the site (wallpapers included) to be our friends and to be the most important people on the net.

What can we do?  and I don't want to hear the "you don't care" or "nobody's input matters" or  "you guys are elitist and only approve your friends" or any other version of unhelpful melodrama because there ain't any conspiracy, there's only a bunch of your fellow artists wondering why nothing seems to please you guys.... 

 

Wow, we just read this whole thread.

We can most certainly understand the frustration of some wall artists but we don't really do what we'd really consider 'art' inasmuch as we do hmm...stuff that just looks good to us on our desktops and for fun. If that makes sense? Maybe that IS art...for us making walls is like making a backdrop...a "set" as you will for the main even (being skins).

We are mainly cursor authors right now...and eventually we'd like to do some other stuff like icons and wb skins but we are taking it as we can manage it and the whole point for us is just plain old fashioned fun! It always was that anyway for us...our name doesn't matter...who we are doesn't matter...what matters is if we get satisfaction out of being creative and having an outlet to share our creativity. And no other place we found gave us THIS much outlet...EVER!

We feel fortunate that our stuff has gotten in at all (regarding walls) after reading this and we hope that some of the artists...REAL artists here don't lose their inspiration.

Paul & I would like to thank everyone here who has to do moderation...it can't be easy and for the record...we won't mind if anything we do doesn't get in as far as walls. Perhaps because of Frogboy's change of moderation we even had anything accepted at all! We feel lucky that so much of what we've submitted got in and we will hold nary a grudge or even bat an eye if something of ours is not deemed worthy.

We would also like to thank Jafo for helpin' us out when we did a major faux pas and thank this site for being a cool place to visit and submit to (voluntarily of course). hehe
K?

And to all you artists who might feel a bit discouraged out there...don't be...and all you big time artists on WC we hope you stick around and keep submitting your phenomenal work! We'd be a couple of unlucky dopes without many of you artists out there who do it and show us how it outta be done.


awwwwwwwwww well maybe us bein' new and all means our word doesn't count for diddly but...we just wanted to say our PEACE

It seems to me some of this is self-inflicted. Previously, there was notification if a wall was rejected and attacks followed. Now if a wall doesn't show "I'm deleting all my stuff and leaving".

While I agree some of the latest work isn't great, I can't say I blame the moderators for being frustrated. I'd quit myself.

Well, to be honest, there really dosen't need to be much argument.

Stardock could nuke the wallpapers section and save quite a bit of space/bandwidth in a heartbeat.

And at the same time tell you all to go suck eggs.

But they don't, now do they?

I really don't see what all the fuss is about........I think you need to give people a chance.......if you don't like the wallpaper they upload, then just go on to the next one, maybe someone else will think what you see as "crap" is actually really good. What I am saying is just give people a chance because I know with even myself in particular, I am just starting out to experiment with 3D rendering programs and I would like to see some appreciation of people's efforts, no matter how "bad" you think it is. I actually think there is a lot of talent here..........not to mention all of the wallpapers are free.......what more could you ask for?

why cant they have a system concening the walls, where ppl can mod. themselves by only allowing a person 2 have so many uploads in a certain time period, (say, like a wk) if there wall dose well, then they cold leave it on the site, if it dosent then they could delete it and put a diff 1 in its place. and they could do this 4 each wk. that way the mods wouldnt get blasted, and the ppl would have a chance 2 share their work.

hmmm No Rules has an interesting idea I think. I'm not sure how something like that could be implemented but somewhere in that thought may be a way to improve the site. I need to think about this more and now is not a good time for me (my brain is shut down at the moment and I have to go out into the real world for awhile).

Creative ideas about how to manage wallpapers is good, gets us all thinking. Surely there's some way to make it better that no one has thought of yet. We would love to be the innovators that have the next great idea on our site. Discussion might lead to this.

Actually not a bad idea No rules. Except I would put a restriction on how many total they can have .That way they could rotate their own stock .It would be up to the person what they wanted to show.I would think 20 max would be more than enough.If one is not doing well,pull it and replace it.I'm sure dl count could still be kept track of.(tho this sounds like more work for T-man.Sorry T-man)

Hmm... this isn't a bad idea at all. Out with the old, in with the new sort of thing.

That does sound like a pretty good idea

As for the subject of this thread, "What happened to skin Moderation Lately"???...I think they gave up

A theft of Digital Blasphemy's "Campfires" Wallpaper just got through 'Moderation'

I don't blame them. They are in a double-bind. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. This is the very thing that leads to burn-out and I feel for them. I have quit paying jobs for this sort of thing before.

I have a healthy respect for all the moderators here and I hope to see them stay a long, long time. I usually don't post in threads like this. I just want all you guys to know I appreciate your efforts here.

A theft of Digital Blasphemy's "Campfires" Wallpaper just got through 'Moderation'

wonder if digitalblasphemy knows about it?

What wall are You reffering to ? Link ?



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There were 3...they have been dealt with...

i didnt even bother reading the thread becasue i know exactly what has been said

I do though have to say that some of the stuff that has been getting through lately has beena little bit under par from what im used to seeing, i know the moderators are under consideral strain and such but the way they were doing things about a month ago was pretty ideal. Just my thoughts

This is seriously ridiculous. I just read this whole thing, and all I can say is I agree with Green Armani 100% and Apocalypse 67!

I must say treatment of artists here is the most RIDICULOUS thing I have EVER witnessed. The motto should be "If you like being treated condescendingly come to WC"
Over the months I have watched, citizens, artists ,viewers/users be treated poorly. They are spoken to in the most cruel of ways. I for one am disgusted and ashamed of some of which I have witnessed over the months.

I may not be a computer guru, or a graphics designer, but I know a thing or two about business,sales, and management. And I can say this, a site in order for it to truly prosper needs to learn a thing about 'service' because reality is WINCUSTOMIZE is offering a SERVICE and a Product. It is WC that needs to treat it's users/viewers and artists a certain 'proper' way because without it's subscribers and artists, There are no skins...or things to download, and no one to download them! NO BUSINESS regardless of the service or product they provide whether it be on the web our a live establishment can thrive without it's PATRONS! THAT IS REALITY! With the artisan that creates the product there is nothing to sell. But, NO ONE ever takes the time to make the customers nor the artist feel that way. Everyone here is on a high and mighty horse, trying to prove how much smarter and above the viewers/artists they are. And it's seriously out of control. This place loses artist after artist and has this mighty mentality of "Oh well, another will come along". Your sales may be fine now, but someday if this site continues this way it WON'T! I'm sure the WC Gods disagree though...just another melodramtic person speaking nonsense.

Do you want to hear the HILARIOUS thing??? SO MANY artists that have been here and have gone to DeviantArt have to come to find that place more friendly...less BS...and more pleasurable to be at. NOW that is HILARIOUS!DA of ALL PLACES???? DA has come to be a more civilized,friendly eviroment to people. That SAYS A LOT!

But that's ok, as it's been clearly displayed the mighty WC Gods don't care. They don't care who leaves, and they find NOTHING wrong with THEM. It's always the melodramatic artists, the ignorant users...NEVER THEM!

Bottome line... with moderation and WC and I KNOW I am NOT alone in this feeling.
If you suck up just enough you will get treated perty good and you DON'T have to be that good to get recognition...just suck up real nice and good. Don't disagree with the way the place is ran, don't disagree with an admin, don't show emotion, don't dispute anything....you WILL prosper. But if you dare have a brain and intelligence enough to know something is BS and say so then by the gods, you will NOT! And ever dare speak your mind in a way that is uncared for by the WC Gods...you'll get exiled. I'm sure this post won't be on long, and surely this will get me exiled...just watch!!

However in fairness I must note of the staff,the one person that has ALWAYS been kind,encouraging and patient in my experience has been BOXXI! He was always a sweetie and patient and I thank him for that. Thank you Boxxi. And Jafo has quite often shown on the threads a good deal of kindness and patience with folks and I'm quite sure it's been appreciated by all those he's aided.

#46 by Scribe Frogboy - 7/21/2003 9:51:44 AM Let me be clear:If no one ever submitted a wallpaper here ever again we would be perfectly happy about it. So if you don't like how we handle wallpapers, simply don't submit them. If you upload a wallpaper it may make it, it may not make it. We're not going to agonize over each wallpaper. It's just wallpaper. There are a gazillion sites that have wallpapers. Are we clear: We don't care if you guys submit wallpapers. Feel free to never ever submit anothre wallpaper ever again. As far as I'm concerned, the wallpaper section is a waste of space and bandwidth. We have it here as a convenience of users.

Forgive the wasted bandwith and your time, I'll remove my things I wouldn't want to waste anymore of it. I am saddened as I thought when I came here this was 'The Place' and I as many thought I would start with skins...and move up, but I guess not! And again as SO MANY I will stay at DA where people aren't reminded repeatedly that it doesn't matter if you stay or go, or what you think, like or don't like.

Those that can respect being treated this way, I wish you well and much happiness. I'm sad because there are some good people I've met here that will be missed and at the sametime grateful as I've made some friends here that I feel blessed for, but luckily we can all be found at the same place for sometime now. Bright Blessings to all.

I meant start with walls, and then skins.Pardon the typo.

You will find out soon that DA can be a very rough place sometimes, too.

Plus your work will be 'lost' amongst millions of other submissions, most of which will be crap.

That's a good way of putting things Fuzzy Logic.....................but I'd rather be at DA where this "crap" you talk about is not moderated by someone who thinks like you which see's a persons work as fecal matter, who might actual think they did a good job, and that's alllll that matters in the end doesn't it.