Which lead to the next comment. Not everyone has the knowledge to skin nor the time available to invest on the creation of a skin.
You are savy at what you do perhaps for the yrs of experience, your profession or simply because you are a quick learner. It didnt take me long to create my 1st WindowBlind and I took a crack at skining a winamp and I did that too in no time. But not everyone learn that quick or can adquire the necessary skills to design or code a skin.

I have to agree with A_67. To think that this was my home on the net and after deciding not to contribut anymore (in the "wallpaper" section no less), I still see that this site is unappreciative of it's artists. To make it worse, it's coming from the top that the wallpaper section is a waste of time.

Why do you even want to be part of a site who doesn't care to acknowledge it's artists efforts and contributions (free by the way), rather, they punch you in the face and basically tell you that your "art" doesn't matter. I'm proud to make wallpapers and if that's all I ever do then so beit but it won't ever ever ever be on this site. This website claims to be family oriented but there is more fighting and finger pointing and false accusations then "I" can handle.

If people want to go to a place that will have everything you want then go over to Deviant Art. That is the best place to get what you need. Without the hassle, without the moderation, without the need to feel that your wall was downloaded more then mine. Why else would you put those rankings there? Humans are competitive by nature, and if you didn't foresee the calamity you are in now then "that" is your fault.

Jafo...I uderstand what your saying,I just think a wall that goes with a specific wb skin should get in no matter how bad it is.(to stop us from linking offsite)

#78 by Citizen I.R. Brainiac - 7/21/2003 3:04:14 PM Jafo...I uderstand what your saying,I just think a wall that goes with a specific wb skin should get in no matter how bad it is.(to stop us from linking offsite)

I.R. Brainiac...I thought c242 had the perfect solution for that situation...Just put it in with the blind

Zodiaq...like I said ,i've used that solution but it wasnt perfect.It does work however.

#77 by Sir Green Armani - HI YOU !

Hope everything is going well, Justin's up in Alaska right now

Skeeters big as Pelicans up there from the sound of it

----------------------

Mmmm, I've a suggestion that might turn out to be one of the more ignorant ones that has come out off my finger tips.

sub-section moderation?

I mean, a set number of people, picked by abilities and skills in artistic endeavors volunteer as Wall Moderators, with Site Admins holding one combined vote to offset tie moderation votes?

So the people involved in the wall moderation hold regular member status in all things except consideration of a given submission?

Of course this just might be one huge slip down the slope, it might also be something that lends traction at the same time.


ok enough from the nut



[Message Edited]

Zodiaq, that will be a brillian idea and the solution to everyone's problem in this site. Unfortunately not eveyone here is a skinner, so an artist that has no knowledge of skinning will never be able to display his wallpaper design. In other words those who cant skin, cant be on this site.

Nice to here from you but to be honest the problem now is the moderation, and I'm afraid that adding more to the process will just make it all worse for everyone. I feel that if Brad is so strong in his beliefs about the wallpaper section, then he should have it removed. Simple solution to an already drawn out problem. Like A_67 said though you will lose half of you contributors in the process. I doubt they will do that as they will loose business and we can't have that can we Brad.

I.R., I understand what you mean about the file size...Really though, to let any wall in just because it's 'Supposed' to match a skin might be a little much.

I think most people like to pick their own walls anyway...unless the matching one is Exceptional...which a lot of so called 'Matching' walls are far from it

IPlural, that might have a chance of working, except for the fact that it will only add more people with different oppinions on a design therefor increasing the diversity of the issue.

Eeeeeek.... GA beat me to the comment.

.
[Message Edited]

Zodiaq...mine was exeptional,cant understand why it wont make it past moderation.And i'm humble too.And dont forget handsome.And my ---- dont stink.

I R

#82 by Skinner Apocalypse_67 - 7/21/2003 3:19:07 PM Zodiaq, that will be a brillian idea and the solution to everyone's problem in this site. Unfortunately not eveyone here is a skinner, so an artist that has no knowledge of skinning will never be able to display his wallpaper design. In other words those who cant skin, cant be on this site.

That's true A_67...to a point. There is absolutely no moderation in blind quality though. So that gives anyone the opportunity to try. I do agree with most of what you have said though

I think IPlural has a good point...The recent submissions as of late definitely prove the moderation is way to lax...and yes...Now has become a waste of space. A group of volunteers for wall moderation would be nice, if possible.

Seriously folks...I don't want to hurt any feelings but this proves ithttps://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=10265

To just say...F**K all you guys and stop submitting, we could care less, that makes me feel very unappreciated...

If anyone hates to see what they perceive as horrid walls....just don't look. There WAS a discussion about removing all moderation [apart from porn, etc] which was generally considered a backward step, though a hell of a lot easier on the moderators/admins....but if ALL the crap that is truly crap was let in then it'd be 'welcome to Tuesday's Webcam snaps R Us.com'.

Sure some 'half decent' misses the cut.....sure some 'semi crap' gets accepted....sure that's an individual taste issue....BUT the one thing you can be certain of is that the truly genuine good stuff DOES make it in [anyone's interpretation of 'good'], AND the genuinely utter crap DOESN'T...[and that's also anyone's/everyone's interpretation of 'crap'].

One more time....if this latest thread is all about the typical miff of having something of your own rejected...under the standard claim that only your own s**t doesn't stink, then contact a moderator for a detailed opinion.  Our noses may be just more impartial....

Frogboy is justifiably terse and succinct on the subject, as, like everyone at what is sometimes referred to as the 'pointy end of the stick', he can get really tired of the same complaint/s wheeled out at the drop of a hat by all and sundry.

Bottom line is that the wallpaper section is ONLY an adjunct to the skin sections, serving as a 'convenience' which can perhaps attract more people to the concept of skins and skinning....remembering of course that Wincustomize.com is a SKINNING site [with walls], not a 'Wall site'.

Consider it a means, not an end.

I personally like our wall section.  Generally, the 'high rated' end of its collection is really 'good stuff', and easier to find as there is far less dross than you'd find on many wall-specific sites.

If I had my way we'd be probably even more aggressive with the moderation...but then perhaps run the risk of having the selection really dominated by personal taste....[then 90% of the Bryce and Terragen would hit the cutting room floor....no more torus's....no more mountains rising out of oceans....AND no more dolphins [YAY!!!]]....

I for one have ALWAYS (until recently by some miracle) sucked at wallpapers but always felt compelled to do one for whatever skin or theme I was working on. I concur that including it in the skin is a possibility but as has been pointed out, makes the file large.

I said something a while back about having a "commitee" of sorts but there are problems with that too. Personalities can conflict, taste may not be broad enough and in some cases, violence may ensue. :^O I hate the thought of losing some people in the wall section (others deserve to be kicked) as there really is some beauty in there.

If WC for some reason decides to drop the wall section, I think they'll lose a lot of visitors whether they be SD customers or not.

Contrary to apparent general perception, moderation improves the breed...it's a 'plus' not a negative....it is one reason [apart from the quality of the artists] that Wincustomize's wall section IS popular.....it is not suffering terminal bloat...where your work, whether good or bad is eternally lost amongst a sea of mediocrity...

That is my point exactly WebMassa. For a while now I have seen the quality of artwork diminish as I have seen the number of good artist leaving WC increase. It is clearly that the method of moderation has somehow [for whatever reason] change it's standards, and sorry to say, but it has change badly.
I dont think this thread is about why something of your own was rejected. I think is a realization of many on the issues regarding the moderation system on certain designs as of late.

Hi Green Armani. Haven't seen or heard from you in a while. The wall section is being less moderated at this moment. As I don't make anything I use WC as a one stop shop. If it isn't here, I don't need it. Thats 99% of the time. I do visit LadyWolf's site, but she is uploading again. Thank God.

Does anyone have ANY reason that the wallpaper section even needs to be here? Frogboy's right, IMHO, and it is just filled with crap. Well, not neccesarily filled, but it has a lot of junk in there. If we got rid of it, it would probably inspire people to skin more instead of just saying 'Hmm, this looks kinda cool, lets see if it gets through!'. It would increase bandwidth (always a plus) and it would make the Moderators job a bit easier I think. If someone wanted to put a wall online to mathc their skin they have two options: 1) Put it in with the skin. 2) Put it on DA and link to it or something like that. This is of course just an amalgamation of a bunch of other peoples ideas but they are all good and thats what I think anyways. IMHO.

When I make a WindowBlinds skin that has a wallpaper as part of it I make it part of the WindowBlinds skin. Sure, it makes the WB skin larger but if it is an "integral" part of the skin, then it makes sense to include it as part of the skin. WindowBlinds has had the ability to include a wallpaper from day 1.

I've always felt the wallpaper section is a necessary evil. People confuse good wallpapers with good art. Good wallpapers are things you can use. A lot of the stuff that gets submitted is great artwork but terribly busy.

I would happily take over all the moderation for wallpapers since I would just reject all of it and I've never pretended to be Mr. sensitivity. It really bothers me to see people constantly bitching and moaning about the wallpaper section on a skin site. They're just wallpapers.

And so that we are totally clear: Please do not feel you need to submit a wallpaper at all. If your feelins are going to get hurt from it being rejected or if you are sensitive to issues of "fairness" on wallpapers, then don't participate. If you make a skin or theme that you feel your wallpaper is a crucial part of, then do it there.

Frankly, the whole thing is a strawman argument because if it were me, I would be submitting this stuff as a WinStyles .suite. Then you can actually associate the skin or theme you want the wallpaper to use. Any recent version of WinStyles supports including wallpaper binaries with links to the other skins and themes on the site so you could just do that.

But then again, .suites don't get quite the download counts that wallpapers get. Of course, I'm sure none of this has to do with download counts and author rankings..

I have learned to be very gentle with artists, these guys will start slicing off their ears if their work is slighted or they feel saddened, they tend to get emotional, I don’t want to have to live with a bunch of sliced off ears on my conscience.

What I don't like is the often seen attitude of skinners/artists/WCers that moderators do have some kind of conspiracy going on against them or somekind of secret agenda. It is like skinners/artists/WCers with this attitude view themselves as the center of the universe.

Nobody can deny that moderators make errors, but on average they do a damn fine job.

If you want to remove the wallpapers then consider that wallpapers are a part of Windows customization, just like icons, cursors, themes and skins.

Some people may think making wallpapers is the lowest art form in skinning that anyone can do in a couple of hours. That is a rather disturbing point of view. Artists like BoXXi and Transmutate might not agree. They take it very serious. And so do the moderators.

Frogboy I'm disappointed to hear you think wallpapers and art are somehow mutually exclusive terms.I dont have a single icon on my desktop (excluding icon dock which I love)because I want art on my desktop.To us they are not just wallpapers.

A group of volunteers for wall moderation would be nice, if possible

I mean, a set number of people, picked by abilities and skills in artistic endeavors volunteer as Wall Moderators

Isn't this exactly what we have at the moment, a set number of volunteer moderators? And are they not people picked for their abilities and skills?

As a moderator here, (former or whatever....I haven't decided) I feel I should say something on this point.

Whatever happens with the wallpaper section, the site and it's moderators are in a "No-win situation". If we are tough in our moderation, people whine and bitch about their stuff getting rejected, (believe me, I have been on the receiving end of much vitriol in the past.) If we go easy on the moderation, people whine and bitch that rubbish is getting through. If we get rid of the wall section, maybe less people will come to the site, and many people would be upset. If we keep the wall section, people will whine and bitch depending on the level of moderation in force at the time..................So, what do we do? Even the more stupid among you should see the simple facts I have just laid out, so this entire thread is a waste of everyones time and will only serve to piss off even further the people at the top. My advice to everyone is to just accept the way things are here, or simply make a different site your homepage or haunt.

And remember, I love the wall section. I started out as a wall artist, (the majority of my 300+ uploads are wallpapers) and I have always stood firm in favour of the section in any private discussions. I believe moderation is good, and if you want to avoid it, hone your skills and get yourself promoted to the point where you by-pass it. Simple!

Regardless of what the people with an axe to grind have said above, this IS a great site, quite possibly one the best there is, and so, constantly whining and bitching about it will only put it's future in jeapordy, which I am sure would suit the axe grinders, but we know who they are and we don't worry about them, believe me. It's the general population of the site that is important to us, and that is most of you reading this, so just get real, remember that WinCustomize is a FUN thing, and go and hone those skills.

Thanks for listening, have a good day.