#18 by paxx - 4/6/2003 11:29:16 AM
"Styl Skinner: 'Iraq take prissonners of war from US side, when we free them they have 2 broken legs and a arm!!!!'

From what I understand, she was indeed in a hospital."

That hospital was a building that said hospital on it, not a hospital where lives are saved, there where no doctors in the building paxx... it was a make shift torture chamber...

And JM33 I'll be on your team, just give a grenade launcher and weare ready to go

Hey Jam....you're a good recruiter

Yeah baby, everyone is signing up.....

Special JM33 commando unit, all geared up and ready for the midnight drop into Saddam's back yard.....

bakerstreet, I don't know either way for sure. There is no proof that they have been tortuerd or not so far. We'll know when the war is over I guess.
In one hand, I hear that she had been recued and said herself that she had been treated relatively OK, on the other hand I hear that story that somebody posted the link to the other day. The problem too is that I hear nowhere else a confirmation of that story. So it it true, is it not? I don't know. Plus, there is something in the way that that article is written that make it sound like a Harlequin novel.

I am sure the Irakis are quite capable of attrocities, they proved it in 1991, but I haven't heard a proof of it in this war so far. I keep expecting to read something about that, but I'm still waiting.

I'm not willing to give the Iraqi's the benefit of a doubt, I say they are guilty until proven innocent...

No..your not...im 100% behind this "war" Saddam must go..and any other "ruler" who treats ppl the way he does.Bush is what most of us...in times of National Security wish we had more often..a President with a set of testicles. Is there a direct link between terrorist's and Iraq?...probably not...would Saddam sell or give a terrorist some nastey weapon to use on us if possible..you bettter believe it! God Bless America...and are troops!

Paxx no offense meant, but what country do you live in??? BBC and CNN have pictures of the tourture rooms in Iraq, they've found families starved to death within the first couple days of fighting, people who spoke to the news crews had their tounges cut out, and they were hung from a tree and murdered. The proof of the evil has been shown here. Traces of chemical weapons found in Iraq, Mustard Gas in the river where the people drink from. All since this war began. Soldiers using families as human shields, puting their own people in areas where bombs will be dropped, all of this has been on American, and British TV. They found thousands of dead bodies, and all of the food sent previously as humanitarian aid in boxes, never distributed to the people, left for the soldiers to eat, while the people starve. I've seen all of this here in America, and on clips from the BBC. Many more things of this sort have happened. They found Meat hooks that people were hung from and tortured, places where women were taken and raped, and rooms where people were electicuted, in the police station. They found Antidotes for Mustard Gas, and Athrax in stockpiles in a hospital, as well as gas masks, and more guns and ammunition than you could ever imagine, all this, in a hospital. Saddam Huesein is a terrible man, and these are a few of the crimes documented since the start of this war. that's why i'm cursious where you live Paxx, i'm wondering if maybe the countries who are against the war are trying to hide these things from their people.

da_zman, I know the Iraki regime as been attrocious with its own people, I've said it many times. My previous post was just meant for POWs.

I also find there religion Attrocious. not only is it inhumane to treat women like they do they treat them secong class. Which i find distgusting and gross right now my little brother which is only a kid he's four years old. He would have more power then my mom within our household thats so much crap. if my mom ever questioned me i would be forced to slap her there would be no saying no because you would have been raised like that and thats how your lifestyles would have been. I guess im with you Jam but on the way to saddams back yard can we hit up Mecca as well. Those sand rats need to die not only for there cruelty but for there imcompatice of women and children.

Oh, da_zman, about the fact that it wasn't a real hospital, I didn't reply first cause it came as a surprise to me. I had assumed it was a real hospital since they kept refering to it as a "hospital". But I am all for believing you.
But just one thing occured to me. I remembered something about that link provided in the other thread, relating the story of that Iraki guy who risked his life to save the American woman soldier. Somethnig doesn't fit. Either, da_zman, your information isn't correct, or that article is really (like I tended to believe) a very cheap made up story.
You see, that article ( http://msnbc.com/news/895233.asp ) starts like this:
Mohammed, a gregarious 32-year-old Iraqi lawyer, went by the hospital in Nasiriyah one day last week to visit his wife, who worked there as a nurse, when he noticed the ominous presence of security agents.
Then, the next paragraph says:
"CURIOUS, HE asked around, and a doctor friend told him an American soldier was being held there. Something made him want to go see. The doctor took him to a first-floor emergency wing where he pointed out the soldier through a glass interior window — a young woman lying in a bed, bandaged and covered in a white blanket."

So, anyway. That is why I don't believe everything. They just don't match. Something is not true here. I don't know which, either what you heard da_zman is false, or this article is. But there are just too many things like this in this war, enough to not automatically believe everything.

Paxx: I'll restate. The Iraqi gentleman that tipped off the US forces did so *because* she was being tortured. Was it with a car battery? I dunno, but I'm not gonna ponder what repeated slaps in the face feel like when you have broken vertebrae. Official statements have been made that the bodies found of US soldiers showed signs of torture. If you doubt official statements, just go on and doubt it all. You'll win ever arguement.

I know you are trying to be objective, but the fact is you shouldn't always be. How can you grant skepticism to the US and the benefit of the doubt to Iraqis? I know of no POWs that were ever well-treated by the Iraqis, so to me it is far more odd to assume they are treating POWs well than to assume they aren't. I don't *need* any more proof of how they treat POWs, I have decades worth of evidence.

Sure, they might turn over a new leaf, but sadly when such things happen, scum bear the burden of proving that they aren't scum. I really don't care how that reflects on me. I don't value the lives of people who torture others. Not a quantitive comparison of value, I don't value them *at all*.

Santos: just FYI, Iraq is one of the countries in the middle east where women are the best treated. There are women even in the government.
That doesn't make Iraq a wonderful place, far from it, but at least, on this specific matter, they are sort of almost OK.

bakerstreet, you were writting your message when I posted my last one, so you didn't read it. So, I guess I could just refer you to it for my answer.
That and the fact that military propaganda has been a part of every war, in every country, since modern communication exist. I don't see why this particular war should be any different.

Paxx i not talking about Iraq im talking about the Muslim religion in there religion women are second class. They use there own Wifes as shield for Godsakes!

USA-AvengingAngel-MOAB...???

what kind of...

Santos_X13 - There are many religions that treat women as second class. I think you know that. Just pick up a history book and you will see that easily.


paxx - I have to disagree with the treatment of POW's on the side of Iraqi's. I do not think they treat POW's very nicely and not within Geneva codes. The Red Cross still to my knowledge have not seen anyone yet. I will admit one thing though I will be keeping an open mind on how the Iraqi's treat POW's until all evidence is in. I would, though, much rather be a US POW then a Iraqi one and it is not because of their lack of hospital facilities or doctors



Yes, we all should be aware of militaty propaganda, stories that do not line up, mis-reads, and news organizations who are more one sided and show mostly one thing verses another. It takes critical thinking to get to the story. I keep mentioning critical thinking because I noticed that while there are changes in many stories or reports, you should be able to see a main theme or trepeated story. Epsecially if something is missing.

Keep it easy, The JM33 squad will fix this
strategic plan:
4:00 dropping in saddams back yard
4:10 saddam killed among with his lookalikes
4:11 Wondering what that glowing stuff in basement is
4:12 exfil by hummer, just a drive trough town like they did yesterday

You ok with that?

As I said before in other threads, if you have a position and feel strong about it, you should take the time to find oppossing views. Be a critical thinker and see what the other side is saying and why and understand the logic behind it.


You will find that either your position is flawed or your position has been strengthened because you know how to answer the critics of your position.



I was not for this war and thought there were many ways to avoid it. Nevertheless, I found that most if not all options still was leading to the same conclusion especailly if Saddam had no intention of working with any UN resolutions. I have asked many here questions that I wanted answers to because I did not know them myself. If we set a deadline and he breaks it do we give him another one? How long does the inspection regime last? If this is about contaitment, and the inspectors don't find anything, what then? Do they leave?

There are many moore questions then that I have posed that I am sure many of my friends at school have not asked even though they are against the war.


Funn, though, I am still not in favor of the war, but I do not see any alternitives. So all I can ask for is a quick end to the conflict and the hope that we all win after the losses of war with peace.

Do we REALLY need another 'Let's go kick ass' Grunt-fest of a thread here?....

I'm all about a grunt-fest......since I am one

G_A you are/have been in Iraq?

Not Iraq but several other places. At this time I'm attached to a reserve unit as an inspector-instructor. We are all joking around at my unit that the reason they didn't send us to Iraq is because they are saving us for N. Korea

For you people that are going over yonder I want you all to know OC will build you all nice some nice pine boxs for your return trip. I'm still against the war, but not the U.S. troopers. However, I doubt if your bravery and skills as merceneries is need at this point in time. It looks like things are about to be wrapped up soon and then the horrors of guerilla warfare such as the former U.S.S.R. fought in Afghanistan is going to evolve. Tit For Tat, like in Israel. Never ending bloodshed and destruction. Ah, me. Such a waste of human,ecological, and financial treasure.

OC ....the more things change the more they stay the same.
As for the 'kick-arse' posts .... take your medication and stop eating junk food! >
If you've never been 1) 'Under Fire' or 2) taken some metal on board your person then you have no idea of how unpleasant the whole business of warfare really is.
And actually 'killing' another person is not an experience easily forgotten.
This is not a video game, it's a thoroughly nasty business and every person bleeds the same colour!!!
Oops! Forgot I'm not supposed to comment on this subject! >

Not at all but even those that are in the service kid and joke about their duty....so it shouldn't harm anyone to make light of the situation because quite frankly, myself and the Marines I work with on a daily basis do the same.