Clearly the admins are experimenting with the Top Author list. IMHO that is a good thing. That list rarely changes. People that are working hard and have a good skin will never reach it.

The list is used by a part of the downloaders. It will enforce the strong position that they already have. I assume that the Featured Skin also has an impact on the results.

I am not sure how the new list is calculated, but I can assume that the admins are trying to remove these disadvantages. And maybe they will want to show the newer talent as well. That is all speculation.

We know that the admins are experimenting with this list. I thought we would all be mature enough to see what comes out of it. But I guess we are not. The establishment watches their position fall and there is an uproar. Hehe. It is about time. /me feels like a hippy (sorry Hippy).

Adni: You make fantastic stuff. People love your work. That is without any doubt. To focus on just that will not be of any help to newer talent or to people that are working hard for some time now. You worked hard to become this popular. There is no way you will loose your populaity anytime soon. No list can do that. But you are too focued on being number one. That scares me.

Dark Mist: indeed. Who are you addressing to?

Paxx

#24 by Lecrayon - 5/6/2003 6:07:15 AM
I don't understand the adni bashing I'd rather have someone leave that thinks he is the most intelligent person around than someone who submits and shares all his work.


He'd rather have someone leave than stay and submit?

Frogboy had mentioned in a different thread that we are now counting SkinCast downloads (we weren't before).

We have been monitoring downloads for many months now and have been working on a different way to calculate the downloads to make it more fair to everyone.

For instance, as I understand it (I could be off on this a bit), there were cases where other sites were pointing to downloads on this site. So, if a well visited site had only one authors works, which were in turn downloaded from here, then it is not fair to the other authors work that was downloaded directly from this site (not pointed to from another site).

There are many factors involved in the change, and the kinks are still being worked out, but it appears to be a much more fair system than it was before.

I would think that anyone who gets in the top 10 (even if it is the 10th spot) should be proud of their achievement.

I guess I always just assumed the Top Author list was calculated along the lines of most DL in last 5 days sort of deal. Seems that way more ppl have a chance at appearing on there once in a while.

If your gonna base your opinion of your work on any list instead of whats thought of it by yourself and others then think there are bigger issues to think about.

Suffice to say your good and popular and quit worrying over some list

you guys make a point too, as I go back to basic, and forget my downloads and kind comments
I skin for myself, and upload it to share it with you...

You share because you want to, not to compete.
[Message Edited]

'Top Authors'.
A phrase that conjures up all manner of 'superiority'...a status to which to aspire, perhaps.

But how is this 'top' calculated? Exactly what acclaim is to be had when pure number totals are added and the result is accreditation to the most prolific?

Would it not be so easy to upload a sequence of single icons, perhaps and therefore make all and sundry download individual items, one at a time [but quickly because they are so tiny] and have a wonderfully high download count than a single, lowly [but brilliant] suite of works in one multi-meg bundle of superlatives, but comparatively feeble DL count?

Exactly who is 'Top' there?

How about the innocent uploader who submits his/her work, and achieves modest numbers...how does he/she contend with the 'serial updater' who knows the ropes and rorts the system?

To my way of thinking the List of 'Top Authors' should be dynamic, or at least calculated in a way that shows a dynamism that has been sadly lacking under the old, simple system.

Obviously there is more than one way to tally results, eg, by date cut-off, favouring more recent uploads, or by factoring a preferential multiplier to a particular section...as I said, all sorts of ways.

On occasion it has been suggested that anomalous DL counts on some works were down to external 'bots', or by off-site linking...[the latter certainly occurred on a WinAMP skin]. The concept of a 'different' calc method could quite conceivably balance that out as well by eliminating it.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the 'Top Authors' list should reflect exactly that, and not merely a 'body-count' of total downloads.

What impresses more...
a 1000 uploads each with 10 downloads over a year,
or
10 uploads each with 1000 downloads over a week?

Part of MadIce's thread about the recognition of 'newer' talent/s is the inspiration of this desire to see a more fluid, transient 'Top Author' list with the application of a newer accounting system.

Needless to say, the numbers will be quite odd until the setup is 'settled', but generally I'm betting it'll all be for the good...

It is certainly an incentive for the established authors to improve, and that's a good thing. I am glad also that the featured skins are not always over and over the same people. That, I thought, eas nice to see in the past few weeks

Lecrayon...that, too is something we need to continue.....hilighting comparative 'unknowns' in just that way...

I don't know about the numbers Adni18, all I know is that my comp mostly uses your skins. I enjoy your work very much and most of the time your skins are there. I enjoy them and everyone else does. Your skins have a definate matching pattern and are clear as a bell. There is politics on this site, no doubt about it, and the art world can be cruel. Your are number 1 to me... I enjoy looking at your work all the time. I will follow you too.

#36 Jafo, that explains why there is never stuff of my in it

hehe...if the only reward for skinning is the recognition I don't know why I even bother to skin at all!

Honestly, I always thought the best part of it was the satisfaction I get by having my desktop and windows look how I want them too. I upload because, even though I made the skins for my own personal use, a few other people may enjoy tham as well. I also get good, constuctive criticism on my graphics technique which helps me to improve my ability to do better work in the future.

You do really good work adni. But so do other people. If you're making skins just to impress other people eventually you're going to fall whether the admins change the system or not. Because when you make something just to please someone else, it all ends up looking the same sooner or later, and those people you had been pleasing will eventually move on to someone new, because your work began to bore them. If the new system the admins are working on helps to prevent people from skinning just so they can get into the top authors list, good. I'm glad.

Now, instead of sitting here complaining that the admins are changing something, go make another skin.... for yourself. Then share it with the rest of us *s*.

My reward is knowing people like my work and actually want to have it.

I think your work is great! i hope you keep it up

I can say that the new system is more fair to everyone. And by fair, I mean in the sense of accurately gauging what skins people on the site are actually downloading.

Without going into too many details, there were two things that changed:

1) Featured skin / Skin cast downloads were not counting as downloads before. So ironically, having your skin featured on WinCustomize actually hurt your ranking. I think any reasonable person will agree that that wasn't fair.

2) The previous ranking system didn't make a distinction between a download that was simply linked from another site and one where the user actually was visiting this site. The top authors and top skins on a given day should be based on people who are actually on WinCustomize downloading stuff.

In addition, if you click on the headers for either, you can still go to the top skins and top authors per category and those are still counted by raw downloads:

https://www.wincustomize.com/index.asp?Cmd=TopAuthorsExtended

Statistically speaking, the ordering of authors and skins shouldn't be significantly changed in theory other than the featured skin author getting a boost for that particular day and a handful of days subsequently.

Why can't you have two lists....one featuring the overall top downloaded author and one that is a hot list of the most popular author for current skins, walls, and whatever else.

The overall downloads would just reflect which author was downloaded the most and the second could have a hot list of current authors who is being downloaded. The current top author list is not reflecting actually the top author because the top author is still Nikos.

Anyone who says that they do it for themselves is somewhat stretching that idea. Why else do you spend a lot of time making anything? Why then do you submit it?

I do this because I love it yes....but also because it is a challenge. I'll look at something someone made and tell myslef "Hey why didn't I think of that", then I plop in front of the comp and try to make something better.

Nothing is wrong with having a competitive spirit....we shouldn't even be using that word, "competition".......it cheapens the experience that all the artists here are going through, and the reason why is because a competition has a winner and more so a lot of losers....and I can't find a single loser on this site.

I ask anyone who has had the top download in any category for the day or was the top author.....how did you feel? Did you say "Yeah I'm glad I was able to share"....okay, maybe you did....but, how many of you felt like the top dog, the "winner" almost, for the day.

I fully understand the feeling Nikos has because I would feel the same.

Try the new system but if it fails at least look at doing 2 lists.

The only reason some people are in the top authors list for so long, is because they're in the top authors list for so long.
If your name is up there, people will click it to see your work, and every click brings more downloads and keeps you in there.
Doesn't mean people there are any better than the rest, just means the rest haven't gotten as much exposure.
Personally I'd do away with that list, it's causing too much hassle lately.
Coupled with the amount of people whining about ratings too, makes you wonder if anyone actually skins as a hobby anymore.

I wouldn't do it unless i enjoyed it

»"My reward is knowing people like my work and actually want to have it. "
Id have to say that that is the exact same reason I do walls and am starting CurXP and WB skinning...Personally, I think that just because you arent No1 on the top authors list day after day is no excuse that you should quit making skins/walls or whatever. Ive never been on the top authors list but I dont really care either...Yea, you get to have your screen name up there...but If you want fame and recognition that bad...go spraypaint the streets with 'adni18'

Green Armani: "The overall downloads would just reflect which author was downloaded the most and the second could have a hot list of current authors who is being downloaded."

Go here https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=145374#145432 and you will understand better what is being done.

Argghhh I need to read more threads....it was just something I was thinking

»"1) Featured skin / Skin cast downloads were not counting as downloads before. So ironically, having your skin featured on WinCustomize actually hurt your ranking. I think any reasonable person will agree that that wasn't fair."

Hmmm...I'm really surprised that featured skin downloads didn't count. It always seemed that skins that were featured almost always showed up in the top download list the following day. Even when a skin was a bit older and was featured it would regularly show up in the top ten. Or maybe it counted as an individual skin but wasn't added to the author's totals?

davad70 this was changed now with the new ranking system, today it doesn't count Featured skin / Skin cast downloads like in the past.