There is a huge difference between an Erebus Batswarming into you from barely out of Fog, then biting and Mass Charming and then being ganked by his slower teammates compared to a DA swapping you from barely out of Fog into enemy towers and instantly chained stunned by his slower teammates. 

Demon Speed needs an improvement in passives, not increased movement speed. That is, some amount of mps or hps, not making the speed progression to be 6/12/18 or something like that. 

Also, btw, increasing both Reg's and DA's speed to 6.3 necessitates increasing Sedna's to 6.3, but that'll never happen, so, lol

I guess the main point is that the strong DGs either have an instant ranged interrupt or a stun.

DA and Reg have neither, and it is a contributing factor to why they blow in a stand up fight.

Warp Strike Interrupt and MotB interrupt would unsuck them by vasts amounts.

Dude, warp strike does NOT need an interrupt.  DA already has a 'strong interrupt' by any reasonable definition.

What?

I disagree.

DA and Regulus suck because they have low hp and cannot tank damage this is why they are the number 1 target of large fights and die the easiest. Throwing random interrupts on them will not change this fact nor will it make them live longer.

The way to play DA and Regulus is to look for sneaky kills, set traps, and assist the tier 1 fellows. Enhancing attributes that make aiding the other DG's is the way to go. Increased base speed to 6.3, 100% activation of stun and impedence blow on snipe at level 15, and give warp area a renovation.

Again, your not ever going to turn DA and Regulus into tier 1 demigods. They will never compete with them it is just not part of there character design.

I agree.  Neither are going to win in a stand-up fight unless you make them overpowered.  Enhance their existing advantages instead (ok, Reg's speed isn't an existing advantage, but it's a necessary concession for him to participate in combat at all while having any hope of escape).

Also, don't knock the stun-on-Snipe until you've seen it in action.  Especially with a 1s+ stun.  Nothing like thinking you're getting away from some slower demigod, only to have a Snipe bolt come flying out of the fog and pin you down long enough for him to catch up.

Reg and Sedna have an unusual relationship. 

In a 1v1 situation, it's an immoveable object and an unstoppable force. Sedna cannot do anything to harm the Reg. Reg cannot do much to force a Sedna out of a lane (assuming that the Sedna is properly geared, has bishops and keeps them back and out of mines and uses minotaur-minions to minesweep). Yes, I know, eventually the Reg will force the Sedna back but it takes awhile and both will end up being oom.

In 2v2s, this is quite different since mines do significant AoE damage and Sedna can't heal through that. 

Yeah, when the regulus is on the other side of the map, snipe is pretty much nullified but that's like saying Silence counters Oak's Shield when she is on the wrong side of the map. 

Giving Regulus an extra 5% speed upsets the 1v1 dynamic a little and the 2v2 a lot. 

Sedna has a small health pool, compared to every other melee demigod and even to some ranged demigods. Against DA she has to Orb, but even then a swap > grasp and she'll usually be near death and she won't survive the 3 second cast back to the portal after the grasp stun expires. It's important that Sedna has the capacity to flee from DA almost as well as DA can chase (DA can always Warp Strike onto a monk or something to get close, but doing so does sacrifice damage on her later which can make the swap survivable). 

In 1v1, the extra speed will make no difference but Sedna should not be a free sack of gold to a team with a DA. 

The extra 5% speed on Sedna will not affect other matchups compared to DA and Reg having a 5% speed advantage on her. 

This is completely true and I think he gets what I mean. Imagine being swapped into gold flag towers at level 5 with oak and whoever else waiting - instant death. I'm not sure if a range buff of 5 would permit this but anything more certainly would. Swap range 2 is pretty effective when you use around corners etc..

No. This is ridiculous. Firstly he already has a stun and you want to give another one with that range and 75% chance of crit damage? - int city.

No. I agree with cow - much more effective and fair to

Hedgie: I get what you're saying, but Reg can already better afford to take a speed item than Sedna can.  According to your model, taking Anklet would make him able to completely dominate Sedna far more effectively than a simple 5% speed base speed increase would.  Also, this assumes the Reg has a level of Maim equal to Sedna's Inner Grace, and is somehow constantly re-activating it on her while kiting despite being the same speed with the same items while it's applied.  Otherwise, without Maim constantly on, she's going to be faster, even with his 5% base speed increase.

I'll give you DA, but DA's a damage-burst monster, and Sedna's health already makes him one of her worst matches.  There's nothing wrong with, or inherently imbalanced about that, given that Sedna is relatively durable over time, and reliable in plenty of other matchups.

except if you take a speed item you don't have Staff of Renewel so you don't do enough damage via mines

Still not buying it.  You're approaching this like there is only one viable build for each of these characters, any if either of them deviates or gets a 5% buff, then OH GOD GAME OVER.  If that's the case (and I'm not even remotely convinced that it is), then there are a whole lot of things that need to be changed, because Reg is pretty terrible against everyone BUT Sedna.

Sedna is nowhere near as useless as Reg in an average 2v2 - 3v3.  Boosting Reg's speed by 5% doesn't suddenly make him better than Sedna in every matchup AND suddenly able to beat Sedna time and time again.  Frankly, I don't think it's going to do enough.

Sedna needs boosts too, but not to any of the skills that people use now (Inner Grace could use a bit more regen at II and III, but w/e).

okay

Not seeing how giving the agreed weakest DG a Pen variant is rediculous. Whats more is that you really can't use Strike as your opening move since it puts you right next to the enemy DG who will likely curb stomp you.

Also the "stun" on swap is a 0.1 interrupt, and like I described earlier, it's easy enough to prevent it from causing cool down while still blocking a skill if it becomes a concern that DA should not be as strong as frost TB.

Like I said

Instant interrupt or Slow Stun... these are contributing factors to what makes the good DGs good. Now let me explain why I say this.

In addition to blocking a TP out.
It stops you from using a slow cast skill / item. (interrupt)
Or gives you a chance to beat on a DG while your skills refresh. (stun)

Swap does not offer either of those advantages, and although admittedly it is a great gank skill, it hasn't propelled DA to be a good DG.

Yes low life is one of the problems... but if you give them more it sort of takes away the flavor. They become tanks with longer guns then the other tanks. I personally would rather give them more standoff power to compensate.

Number of interrupts does not equal strength or usefulness.  DA is weak because he's soft and slow, not because he can't interrupt or can't gank (he can do both of those things just fine).

I am not saying to give them more hp's re-read my post.

LO - I understand where you are coming from I just get the feeling you want every single dg to be equally powerful at every stage of the game - this is a bad idea and not why dg is a good game. Anyways...

Its pretty much suicide for DA to be first into a group battle early game. Late game he almost always picks up orb for this reason and his level 15 DA frenzy thing usually kicks in with treads for easier escape. Also, when you watch a good DA player they use warp for attack and also an effective escape (for example warping to a tower or minion to get away).

This is a good thing. Why should all ints be the same? - and like I said this one enables you to get the gank on shield-porting oak.

They need to be played completely differently as they fulfil completely different roles - and cant really be compared. So I don't see how you could even balance out these 2 (or why you would want to try)

We are just going to have to disagree here for the reasons already stated. Briefly, for example - giving reg a 100% effective int will not stop him being ganked due to speed, armor and hp issues - He is not a tank. It's the playstyle and game sense of the player that make dg's effective , (and whilst I acknowledge there are tiers for the dg's, that's actually what makes this game entertaining and shouldn't be changed).

TY Zex.  Im betting Zex plays the best DA in the game right now and he probably understands more about what DA needs than anyone else playing right now.

Stun on WS is just random slapping on of stuns, I don't like it at all.

Stun on Snipe is a great idea, Stun on MotB is not.

Some people think Reg needs a speed up grade while others don't. I think he does but it should be on angelic fury. (at least then his banter about faster with wings would make sence)

The play style is totally different with DA and reg than any other DG. Personally i like the skill lvl and understanding of a completely different role that it takes to play these characters. There is more to the game than holding a solo lane. I don't care if either of these characters suck in a 1v1 i just want them viable in team games.

I fucking LOVE this idea!!!!!

Give him 

+5%, 10%, 15%, 20% on each level of Angelic Fury. 

HE WILL ACTUALLY MAKE SENCE WHEN HE SAYS, " THIS WOULD BE FASTER WITH WINGS." 

only active players may discuss balance in this thread. 

Now start playing again ya bums (at least max has a good excuse). 

heh - edit - I suppose all you modders get a pass though.

lol

hedgie - join the practice tournament - will only take 1 night.  I'll join you in retribution afterward and you can kick my ass.  I'm going to preorder that soon.... just not sure what preorder bonus I want yet. 

Stun on snipe is a terrible idea in the early game, because you have no way to mitigate it (target) because you can't see it coming, and you can use it intentionally to block something that shouldn't be blockable all through the game (block locking a portal when you see someone running up to the port flag).

Now, also consider when you are sniping cross lane, maybe it will block a skill cross lane maybe it won't. Adding some random maybes cross lane is also not a great way to improve Reg when all his problems are failing terribly in the lane he is fighting in. My opinion: Any improvements need to come by player "skill" and not so much random luck.

Snipe should not interrupt until level 15 because it is a powerful way to block a portal lock, at this point it is justified as being a powerful skill. Because really, deadeye by itself is crap, and adding auto attack effects to the snipe is the theme with Reg. (eg: tracker but not MoTB, otherwise why don't we just let him shoot mines on his snipes too :D)

As for fast interrupts not making a difference... come on, I am always having to be careful when I use vulnerable skills / items like boulder / hammer / spit(besides the telegraph if you can count, you can probably interrupt this skill every once inawhile) / all the fire skills on TB / healing potions / mass charm / frost nova / ground spike (like spit) etc... blocking any one of those skills makes a significant impact to the outcome of a battle.

If you are behind the lines attacking in a 2on2 or 3on3, that extra fast interrupt in the battle is HUGE.

Cow, you certainly implied the problem is low life, but now that you've explained, I've always agreed too, more standoff power (or sneaky kill power as you describe it, basically not engaging in the fight directly, but being able ot be a threat when the opportunity exposes itself).

I dunno, what can I say on skill similarity except get over it... every skill in the game falls into certain variations. Fast ranged interrupts are one of the most powerful things in the game... give it to the weak guys and play with it before dismissing it outright.

At least I am making mods available to try stuff out and playing 100s of offline games with them with my friends, you 1337 guys would have more credibility in your opinions if you at least tried it and came up with some details to back it up based on your observations, rather than your pre-bias based on how you think things play out. [this is me chiding you to play some modded games, it may or may not change your opinion, but at least you could be 100% certain why :D]

Also, I did have 5% movement speed on Angelic fury in CrazyTown 3. It didn't seem to make any difference... but I can put it back or make a separate standalone mod if someone good wants to play a couple of test games with kiting pew pew pew Reg.

Not really.  There's no other skill like Snipe, no other skill like Deadeye, Mark, Scope, Impedance or even Mines.  Reg's only skill that's similar to anyone else's is Maim.  Even Angelic Fury is only distantly similar to God Strength, but not really.  No other Demigod plays anything like Reg.

So I'd say that's a pretty specious argument for handing out instant interrupts like candy.

Hrmm, I would disagree with that, on the topic of where to put an interrupt and the homogeneous origins of skills on the drawing board.

Mark is a variation of Pen, so should get the interrupt

Deadeye and Impedance are level 15 skills, so should not have real correlation to skill lines on the other DGs.

It just happens that Reg's passive skills activate on snipe [maim and track], and MoTB is a non-interrupting variation of Pen. As such it is not a stretch to say Interrupt on MoTB, and Deadeye and Impendance triggers on snipe were removed from the game because in the early days Snipe was considered the most potent skill in the game and Reg was considered the DG most able to kill other DGs.

Mines are a variation of towers and minions. (summonable damage)

Snipe is a variation of finishing skills like slam and spit... except instead of working in lane, it works cross lane.