If you mean using cuss words and other general silliness yes I do enjoy talking like a 14 year old. Although my spelling, grammer, and punctuation is probably about as good as a 14 year old as well.

I see what your doing like I said your trying to make him into an UB, Rook, Oak or Erebus. I am sorry pacov, thats not regulus. REgulus SHOULD NOT WIN IN A 1v1 AGAINST ANY OF THOSE DG's.

Your comparing Apples to fucking oranges here.

Regulus is designed to Kite opposing DG's. Not melee the shit out of them and stand there like hes a bad ass.

If you want to help regulus be competitive make him better able to kite people and send them back to the crystal.

6.3 movement with 1 rank in maim will make melee demigods CRY.

Its the nature of regulus to not be competitive vs those other DG's. No matter what you do to his skills he wont be able to compete like you want him too. His design is to SUPPORT other demigods in a unique way.

My arguement is that throwing interrupts on characters is just to extreme of a step towards trying to make DG's competitive with the top 4. You should look to play to the DG's strengths and enhance those abilities. What truely is Regulus, Da, TB, QoT designed for??? Ask those questions before throwing interrupts and fancy shit onto DG's.

There are the main carry DG's (rook, ub, erebus, oak) the guys that are the center of attention, dominate in 1v1 situations, melee DG's, high hp, hard to kill

Then there are the support chumps ( Sed, QoT, Oculus, Da, Reg, TB) High Burst, Heals, Ranged, Squishy, Tricky, Sneaky play styles. This is were regulus belongs, he is not a carry character. Don't try to make him one.

If you mean using cuss words and other general silliness yes I do enjoy talking like a 14 year old. Although my spelling, grammer, and punctuation is probably about as good as a 14 year old as well.

Heh As long as your reasoning is sound (and it almost always is, unless you are arguing with Shane over who has the biggest ;)), I don't give a damn about your grammar

nvm

no.  The discussion is really about what would make these dgs better.  I doubt its arguable that giving reg an interrupt is a bad idea.  And its not an "I see what you are doing there" sort of argument.  I'm not trying to call you out.  I'm saying that in the magical ideal world, all dgs are viable against all dgs.  The change I suggest moves closer to that.  And I'd argue that what I'm suggesting is substantially more valuable than a speed increase (thought I get your kiting point) and should not be so quickly dismissed.  A reg with an interrupt could stop a flag from getting locked, interrupt a tp to safety and so.  These are things that make dgs more viable late game.  A reg with more speed could... run.  Maybe you have a point about the other dgs, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on with regards to not giving reg a stun or int. 

And please - continue your line of thinking.  I enjoy discussing this sort of thing and I really am not trying to slight you.  I simply disagree. 

If you REALLY want all demigods to have access to interrupts put the interrupt pot into the game from the Favor Mod.

I just strongly disagree with all DG's needing an interrupt. You can make them better and stay truer to there character without adding interrupts.

EDIT: you could, however, convince me that making the chance for a stun proc on Regulus's Dead Eye Skill to be increased significantly.

Don't worry Cow, at least you're relatively young so its not as bad when people say you talk like a 14 year old.

I'm 33 so its probably not good how many times a shift my boss says "I swear, he's like a ****ing little kid!"

Anyway, I'm all about demigod diversity.  People think that just cause Queen is decent early game, that an early/mid game buff like the 500 extra mana is foolish... but really, why is that?  Oak sucks early and rules the late game.  Erebus is great early, but only decent later.  If you guys do try and make a balance mod, is the goal to make all demigods equal during all stages of the game?  That seems rather ambitious.

I'd personally rather have things stayed unbalanced than just homogenize all the demigods.

I don't think even great players like Pacov really realize how much an early game buff like 6.3 speed would affect the endgame. Maybe he just imagines a level 12 Regulus in a 3v3 brawl by a portal and thinks "How the **** is 6.3 base speed gonna make Reg viable late game?!"

Or maybe he is taking into account that 6.3 base speed reg would be leveling faster, kiting better, getting yellow denied less often, and shopping quicker and just doesn't think its enough.

I could agree with that.  Occ is an example of 1 that might not need it.  But reg isn't.  I also agree that dead eye would be useful to change, but even still - that's a level 15 skill.  Odds are portals are being pushed on either side well before level 15.  So, I don't think just giving him something at 15 would cut it to make him viable.  And of course, I think he should have SOME level 15 skill that is truly worth picking up. 

Correct.  That alone is not enough to compensate, imo.  I get that.  But its really not enough to make him useful in the highest level games.  A stun could change that. 

Another thought as well, fellas (and darkliath if you are out there :)) - we are in a somewhat unique position.  Whether or not you believe demigod is dead and won't receive additional updates, there will be a minimum of 3 more demigod tournaments with prize money.  Any balance change that we could all agree upon could be added as a required mod to the tournament.  So, if we come up with some reasonable changes, it will be there in the tournaments.  And folks like to practice for the tournaments, so there will be many games with the changes we discuss in place.  The bottom line is that we all need to generally agree about the change for it to be implemented.  And if we come up with something that works well, I will also submit it for inclusion in demigod.  Whether or not changes like that will be implemented remains to be seen, but I will put the changes we want out there and Brad will make sure that GPG knows what changes we want. 

Anyway, why don't we focus on regulus specifically and discuss changes that would make him more useful and viable late game.  Cow makes a good point about increasing his movement speed.  I think I make a good point about adding a stun or int to his mines. 

Look at these senarios.

.......................................................................

Here comes an Erebus, Oak, Ub, Rook at your Portal and our savior! mr. regulus-with-stun-mines is waiting for him, both full hp, both teams are dead but those 2.

Everyone of those DG's Will have 6k hp late game, Regulus will have 4-5 if hes lucky.

Regulus WILL BE killed or sent back to the crystal before he can stun the flag lock with his fancy mines.

........................................................................

The best thing Regulus can do to stop portal harass is to lock it before people get there, even with stun mines.

........................................................................

Now big fights:

Regulus-with-stun-minez is in a big 3v3

he throws his mines, your talking a 1200 damage mass charm sized stun. IF the deration of the stun is long you are talking chain stunning in time to throw another set of mines. Regulus would be UBER L33T in big fights, like rediculous OP.

........................................................................

Random mines:

Imagine walking around the map and running into random stun-minez.

Real fun being stunned walking around for a few seconds eh? Fun mechanic or stupid mechanic? I vote stupid.

........................................................................

Interrupt Pots: Artifact Consumable.

1k gold, instant cast, interrupts ability upon cast, no stun time, 60s CD basically deep freeze in a bottle. Viable late game only to save portals, stop porting.

So.... what you are saying is that it would not hurt reg to have a stun or int then?'

and really... the big fight is actually where its most viable and strong.  Reg drops the mines in a 3v3.  The int has a chance to disrupt any ability that is about to cast including someone running for their life, fireball/you name it.  Its actually strongest here.  And that increases viability mid/late game. 

heh... edit - I noticed that you picked up on him being strong here.    I certainly don't think that makes him op, though.  Just more viable.  You really think this would make him more valuable than an erb or a ub?

With regards to stopping someone at a portal from locking... this obviously increases the chances from 0 to > 0, right?

I'm 33 so its probably not good how many times a shift my boss says "I swear, he's like a ****ing little kid!"

Oh noes! (c) You cannot possibly be older than pacov and brasher! No one is older than pacov and brasher! Btw, Dreamcatcher who plays a lot of LoL lately, says the vast majority of the community there is comprised of people less than 18 y. o., while what we have here in DG... Uh... A lot of married folks, many of them 30+. I think it's a huge advantage, actually.

There are more interesting ways to buff characters without homogenizing them. 

For example, I don't think Reg should get an interrupt, but attaching a Deep Freeze like debuff to Mark of the Betrayer might be nice (+10/20/30% cooldown). It does good AoE damage + snare so you can't really buff it's damage or reduce it's mana cost, and it has a long cooldown so it's not going to be super-abuseable. Or you can do things like "If you have mark of the betrayer on you, you take 10% more damage from Regulus' abilities". There are ways to buff characters or accomplish goals without throwing out "equalizers". 

Occulus could get an incoming damage% reduce attached to Brainstorm. Sure, it doesn't interrupt but it makes the opponent's abilities less useful. 

Also, I was laughing about QoT because I assume you're a capable player and you're using Blood, and she doesn't really need help then. Also, because the solution wouldn't be to give her +500 mana off the top, but instead to give her +50 mana per level (or, even better, make Shield IV not cost a stupid amount of mana). Now you're not making her early game even better, but you're rounding out her early game. 

That's not a bad idea.  There's no way to implement 10% damage from a specific player without adding some significant new code paths, but a general -5/-10/-15% damage reduction for the duration of the snare might work.  Combining that with a cooldown increase would be a bit brutal though, it's not like MotB is terribly shabby right now.

I still don't have a problem with giving Reg a guaranteed Snipe interrupt from Deadeye.  It's an L15 ability that's just about useless otherwise, and Snipe has a 2.0s cast time PLUS TRAVEL.  You're looking at 3s+ at max range, and even at point blank somewhere around 2.4-2.6s after activating the ability.  Yet crazy potential range.  Not at all like anyone else's interrupt, and would require a bit more guesswork and forethought to use.

- Agree with DA needing 6.3 base speed

- Disagree with DA needing a massive AE ability.  He should not get Chain Lighting IV + 250 damage + 4s invulnerability for 3 skill points.  That's ridiculous regardless of how weak he is, and not at all what DA is about.  He needs boosts to single-target skills and passives.  I don't disagree that Warp Area should always knock small units back, however - that would actually make it worthwhile early- to mid-game.  Re-appropriating the tier 3 / level 15 ability for an additional damage boost wouldn't be a terrible idea either, as long as it's far more reasonable than 1000 total.

- DA could use some snare protection.  Rather than boosting his speed passive, let it synergize better with the evasion passive and enforce a slow cap at their highest combined level, e.g. +5% of base with both at I, +10% of base with one at II and one at III.  This wouldn't make him any faster, but it would prevent his speed from being knocked way down if you're willing to invest 2-6 points in otherwise mediocre passives.

IF YOU WANT AN INTERRUPT GET DEATHBRINGER

Pacov: I think Cow has a point about the mines being overpowered and underpowered in all the wrong ways depending on the specific way you want to buff them... which I don't believe you've stated yet.

Do you want a .1 second stun or interrupt?  Remember, there is a difference.  

If its only a .1 second stun, then why are you bothering wanting to change anything like that?  Its almost completely inconsequential in portal locking fights.  Might get Reg a kill once in a while by making someone re-cast a port or something I guess... I'd personally think 6.3 speed would be MUCH more useful.

If it is an actual interrupt, how is an ability with a long casting time going to help him in the late game portal wars?  He'll just get faked out by people cancelling their locks right?  So the only use it will be will be a totally random crapshoot in 3v3 fights.  Throw the mines and hope you randomly interrupt a couple abilities.  

Yay for not making Reg better against the opponents that he struggles the most against.  Are you going to interrupt Rook's Boulder Roll?  Erebus's Bite? Oak's Pent?  UBs Grasp?  UBs Spit?  UBs Ooze?  Maybe once in a while but not often.  Might have better luck with Fireball and Surge of Faith and other long cast abilities, but hell... in a semi-laggy game its hard enough to interrupt someone with an instant ability, so its really just gonna be a throw your mines and hope for the best scenario most times.

So lets give him a 2 second stun right?  Ummm... no thanks to getting stunned by a mine while trying to capture the HP flag and have 3 chain-stunning demigods port in on my motionless ass.  That does not seem like fun to me.

Contructive Edit:  Put the interrupt on MoB.  I hear Miri's point that its a great spell that doesn't need the buff, but Regulus does need help overall and isn't that the more the point?

Re: Reg

Amen to that. 

VERY USEFUL IN NON-FILTHY RICH GAMES

COWS ULTRA SUPER COOL THINKS HES 100% RIGHT LIST OF BALANCE CHANGES THAT NEED TO GET DONE

Regulus:

1. Increase base speed to 6.3

2. Increase base range by 1

3. Dead Eye increases snipes chance to stun for 1s on hit to 100%

DA:

1. Increase base speed to 6.3

2. Remove Warp Areas final ability, Warp Area now throws small units into the air at rank 1, Increase Warp Area 1 damage to 500 hits 4 targets, Increase Warp Area 2 to 750 hits 6 targets, Increase Warp Area 3 to 1000 hits 8 targets. Mana cost 500-->750-->1k

QoT:

1. Increase base mana regen by +3 per level

2. Reduce Spikewave III's mana cost to keep it in line with II and I costs

3. Mulch shambler damage is now instant.

Rook:

1. Structural Transfer now grants 500--->750---->1k----->1.5 armor on use last deration of the skill and is removed when Structural transfer is canceled, interrupted, completed.

2. Structural Transfer level 15 Final ability now grants same amount of mana as hp on use.

TB:

1. Increase Frost Novas "freeze" effect by .5 s per level.

2. New effect added to Ice Aura, reduce opposing DG armor in radius of Ice aura around TB by 200--->500--->750

Note: number 2 is there to reflect on ice TB's best ability AA.

Erebus:

1. Batswarm 3 mana cost reduced

Oculus:

1. Ball lightning now explode on death or resummon at level 1 cause 200 damage in a small area, Ball lightning level 15 ability now summons 6 balls at the same time.

2. Impliment all Oculus uberfix changes.

Sedna:

1. whatever hedgie wants hedgie gets, I don't play sedna.

2. Wild Swings effective at level 1 of Horn of Yeti, Wild swing level 15 removed.

3. Yeti Summon mana Cost reduced to 400, 400, 750, 750

4. Level 15 yeti ability now summons 6 Yeti's all at the same time 1k mana.

Oak, Ub unchanged.

 EDIT: a few changes and clarified a few things.

I disrespectfully disagree with mostly everyone on this thread .

Yes, not having an interrupt is a HUGE handicap. Stun/interrupts immunity is what makes Oak Shield Lvl. 3 an omgwtf awesome and mandatory skill.

Not having an interrupt is as if everyone in the opposing team had a shield-like natural skill but without the invulnerability part, everybody can happily tp-out/lock/pot in your face when you get em dangerously low in HP. IT IS a huge issue for Reg, and to a lesser extent for QoT and Occ. It essentially turns them into defensive DGs.

Now, mines interrupt is not the way to go imho, that's overkill. Nor is interrupt on snipe, that makes me rofl hard: first u need sight on target you want to interrupt, then you need to be within snipe range, then it takes 2 SECONDS to cast snipe plus the bolt travel time. So you'd basically need to PREDICT things and cast it almost before the lock/tp/pot you want to interrupt. You haven't played nearly enough Reg. if you think interrupt on snipe is remotely viable.

Interrupt on MotB is clearly the way to go imho: good range, fast (instant cast time?), and good sinergy with current skill properties: if you cast MotB on someone casting X, he/she gets interrupted, damaged and slowed. Easy.

On balance. I've always had a DG balance mod in mind, but the nearly-dead state of the game/community stops me from doing it. For starters, along with the interrupt on MotB:

• 6.3 base speed on Reg and DA is mandatory.
• Increased range and reduced CD and cast time on Snipe per Lvl (not sure, maybe 90/100/110/120 in range, 1 sec CD reduction per lvl, 2 secs to 1 cast time from snipe 1 to snipe 4 ).
• Increased number of max mines on the field per lvl, something like 12 for Mines lvl IV, maybe a little increase on mines cast range per lvl too. That or allowing any number of em in the field but with a death-timer like rook towers.
• Complete rework of all Reg. lvl 15 skills except MotB III.
• Big buff to DA's Warp Area lvl I skill, maybe 8 targets for 250 damage or 4 targets for ~500 damage.
• Rework-merge of DA's passive skills to make more different builds viable.
• Base Speed of UB reduced to 6.0, increased movement speed buff (and only, attack speed buff not affected) on Inner Beast to 5%/10%/15%, some kind of nerf to Acclimation.
• Miscellaneous little changes on other DGs, like making TB Ice-to-Fire change faster, fixing/buffing Frost Nova a little, allow QoT to attack while switching forms, making mulching easier somehow, and little else, the tier Oak/Ereb/Rook/Oc/Sed stand is pretty much balanced except for very specific matchups.

Too bad DG gameplay is so stale atm, it's become a terribly predictable experience. I wish i had the motivation to implement something like this, but i don't feel like DG state deserves the effort, sadly. Gee i'm amazed i actually took the time to write this wall of text, sorry guys .

Oh, i forgot, in case it was agreed Occ and QoT need an interrupt as well (which i'd agree with), i agree on adding interrupt to Spike Wave.

I don't agree with interrupt on blast off, though, that's as overkill as interrupt on mines.

I always thought BrainStorm was the perfect skill to place an interrupt, make it able to cast on enemy DGs and interrupt them, maybe draining mana from them as well. I understand this might make Occ overpowered, though, once the uberfix fixes are applied and his skills work as intended (debuff clearing on BStorm, etc....).

Eh I don't know what I was smoking when I said 10 mana regen on QoT make that 3 addition mana regen per level.

Anyway, I believe less is more when it comes to balance changes and suggestions on changing skills. The changes I have stated are minimalistic and will change the game drastically without making a huge mistake by adding something extreme.

There seems to be no agreement on giving reg/qot/occ an interrupt (other than I still stick by at least giving reg 1).

I agree with you cow, balance changes need to be done in a very careful way.

But i've played more than enough DG games to know that Reg. needs a lot more than just a base speed increase to not be a team-handicap when playing against a team with no Reg nor DA. Pretty much the same goes for DA.

It's not a matter of making all 1v1 fights balanced. You won't kite Erebus with Reg no matter how hard you try, he will still Batswarm-Bite you to death once he gets to lvl5, while he mists your Marks and his minions harmlessly blow off your mines.

It's a matter of making any combination of (3v3 at least) teams as viable and balanced as possible. At the moment, to put just 2 examples, there's no counter to a Pro UB but another Pro UB, just like once you hit late game in a balanced match, if you have a Reg it becomes 2v3 unless you manage to get Ashk for your Reg (that is, 1% of the games).