Shards! Hoo! Good God, y'all. What are they good for?

from Elemental Forums

So, I'm not sure exactly why, but I had assumed that, when Mana went global, that each shard would produce the appropriate mana type. Fire mana, air mana, etc. I've been disabused of this silly notion in the past couple days, which leaves me with two questions.

1) Why would I care about shards at all, given that my soveriegn and a variety of buildings generate mana, and only a couple spells are affected by them?

2) Does anyone with modding knowledge have any idea of the feasibility of creating new resource types? I know it was mentioned that spells would support resource costs, so... it shouldn't be a big deal to just implement multiple mana types myself if resources can be created.

elemental
9,797 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

See Age of Wonders.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Played AoWSM. I'm not sure I see your point?

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting JSJ101, reply 2
Played AoWSM. I'm not sure I see your point?
End of JSJ101's quote

You will need more mana than buildings and the Sovreign give (I suspect the buildings will be like the Mana regen building and be one per nation). At 1 mana per imbue (at at least that much per other persistant spell) and building having +2 and sovreign at +3, shards will be of great importance.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

From what I remember, in Age of Wonders nodes create power, not a specific kind of mana, and aren't required to cast any spells. You're better off with more, no reason not to grab them.. but then they're pretty easy to get hold of in AoW.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top


So, I'm not sure exactly why, but I had assumed that, when Mana went global, that each shard would produce the appropriate mana type. Fire mana, air mana, etc. I've been disabused of this silly notion in the past couple days, which leaves me with two questions.

1) Why would I care about shards at all, given that my soveriegn and a variety of buildings generate mana, and only a couple spells are affected by them?

2) Does anyone with modding knowledge have any idea of the feasibility of creating new resource types? I know it was mentioned that spells would support resource costs, so... it shouldn't be a big deal to just implement multiple mana types myself if resources can be created.

End of quote

1) A sovereign generates 3 mana per turn. A shard generates 1 mana, and gives you the ability to build an improvement that produces another 1 mana per turn in the nearest city if it is above level 3. Effectively, each shard allows you access to 2 more mana per turn. In addition, some shards boost the output of some spells (mostly unknown at this point).

2) It is entirely possible, and quite easy, to add additional resource production to shard buildings, and require them when casting spells. In 1.09e, there were two major obstacles to this. First, the SpellResourceCost the modder used to define custom resource cost for spells acted differently in strategical and tactical mode - in essence, it didn't check your current supply in tactical mode, which allowed for infinite casting in tactical despite requiring the resource. I requested that this be changed, but I haven't heard anything about that being done.

Secondly, the other major obstacle is - how is the AI going to use it? Will it "break" the AI for the spells, or will the AI fail to take into account this new cost balance of spells? Most likely the AI will use the system poorly.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I think we're all forgetting one important thing...

While there is a +Prestige/+Mana building for both Empires and Kingdoms in place...  The Shard Prerequisite +Mana/turn buildings, at least in the changelog, do NOT list them being 1/nation.  I assume this is the intended event, further adding to the new vaunted importance of specialized cities.  We'll see later today.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 5



1) A sovereign generates 3 mana per turn. A shard generates 1 mana, and gives you the ability to build an improvement that produces another 1 mana per turn in the nearest city if it is above level 3. Effectively, each shard allows you access to 2 more mana per turn. In addition, some shards boost the output of some spells (mostly unknown at this point).

2) It is entirely possible, and quite easy, to add additional resource production to shard buildings, and require them when casting spells. In 1.09e, there were two major obstacles to this. First, the SpellResourceCost the modder used to define custom resource cost for spells acted differently in strategical and tactical mode - in essence, it didn't check your current supply in tactical mode, which allowed for infinite casting in tactical despite requiring the resource. I requested that this be changed, but I haven't heard anything about that being done.

Secondly, the other major obstacle is - how is the AI going to use it? Will it "break" the AI for the spells, or will the AI fail to take into account this new cost balance of spells? Most likely the AI will use the system poorly.
End of Heavenfall's quote

Thanks. That's pretty helpful. I hadn't considered the AI implications of setting this up. As for (1), I guess I should be more explicit. More specifically, what I meant was, "With current mechanics, why have more than one shard type at all?" Other than the obvious history of the game mechanics.

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting JSJ101, reply 7

More specifically, what I meant was, "With current mechanics, why have more than one shard type at all?" Other than the obvious history of the game mechanics.
End of JSJ101's quote

For requirements to cast the really big spells that can change the course of the game with one casting... or win it out right.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 8



For requirements to cast the really big spells that can change the course of the game with one casting... or win it out right.
End of Gwenio1's quote

Yeah, believe it or not, I can read (almost!) as well as the next guy. While I'm a big fan of the direction the game is going in general, I wonder how much I'm going to like an arbitrary restriction like that once I get a chance to play. Why would I be able to cast a snowstorm without a shard, but a full-blown blizzard, that's another story?

Another question for someone who is more familiar with the AI of the game, or just the type of AI that the game uses. If an AI would be able to handle something like... "I need 8 more units of iron to create this golem," are there any qualitative differences it dealing with multiple mana types? In other words, how specific are the algorithms that (usually) control this kind of thing? Or is there just no way to tell without seeing the actual code?

As an aside, is there any interest for something like this as a mod (assuming favorable AI compatibility)?