Honestly, I wanted to put an oil drum in the middle of this thread and blow it up this morning but decided against it because I didn't feel like starting anything...

I've been trying the Bruce Lee/Mumblefratz method of "fighting without fighting."

I gave it a shot but it was a half-hearted attempt.

Why would anyone get upset about Libertarians being crackheadish when everyone already _knows_ this?

It's kinda saddening that we don't have any faith in our own species. But there is one thing that can unite humanity, thats an external force. Imagine if aliens show up tomarrow and tell us that there's a big meanie alien coming to kick our butt, I bet a one world government will spring up very quickly.

Imagine if aliens show up tomarrow and tell us that there's a big meanie alien coming to kick our butt, I bet a one world government will spring up very quickly.

Aha... hahahahahahahahahahah

No. You REALLY don't understand how people work, do you.

Because we sure as hell all united the SECOND that anyone has been a threat to the entire world!

Oh wait... no. The only times the nations of the world have united in a fight is when either there's no chance of losing, and something to gain, or when it's fight or die NOW.

If an alien fleet invaded, we'd end up arguing about who has power. There would need to be a military force to unite the Earth, and frankly there are far, far too many uncooperative nations who would never accept taking orders. This is the way things have always been,and always will be.

You might wanna watch what you say. Based on his blog, I'd say Brad is leaning towards Libertarian.

As for faith in our species, it all really boils down to one thing. We evolved to operate well in small, tribal units. In that sort of a setting, where everyone knows each other and most people are related in some way, all of these difficult questions don't really come up. People who physically can't work will be provided for by family and friends. People who simply don't want to work will be ostracized (or just smacked upside the head). There's no such thing as taxation because there's no need for it.

It's only when you throw a few million of us together that it all breaks down. Suddenly, you and your family's personal well-being becomes intertwined with the well-being of millions of other people you don't even know. The principles that made sense in the tribal setting are difficult, or even impossible, to translate to the modern nation. Unfortunately, that's the "programming" of our species that we've currently got to work with. We've gone from tribal to modern nation much more quickly than any evolutionary change in how we mentally operate could keep pace with.

Evolution isn't necessarily related to isolation. It occurs when a species is subjected to any change in conditions. That can happen due to isolation, but it can also happen due to more wide-ranging changes for the entire species. A change from a tribal society to modern nations undoubtedly has evolutionary implications. We're still evolving, but in a species with our relatively slow reproductive rate, it's impossible to observe. Perhaps in 100,000 years we'll have evolved into a people who can easily cope with a unified society of billions. We aren't that species right now though, so it's difficult, imperfect, and not necessarily even inevitable or desirable.

Imagine if aliens show up tomarrow and tell us that there's a big meanie alien coming to kick our butt, I bet a one world government will spring up very quickly.

Yeah, the government of the big meanie aliens.

The good thing about it is, I sincerly doubt we have to worry about that situation coming up. So, we will never know (unless we do, but I expect we won't).

Its not that I don't understand people, I just have more faith in our species. C'mon, bashing our species does not make you cool. Just like wearing that pink shirt, it doesn't say your cool, it just screams Gay.

And what's wrong with a Libertarians? I believe that government (local/federal/or world) should be invisible from our daily lives. Sure, it should be there, but less intrusive.

C'mon, bashing our species does not make you cool.

I'm not trying to bash our species, I have great faith in humanity. We ahve done great things, we are doing great things, and we will continue to do great things. All I'm saying is that any intergalactic conquerers that show up any time soon will likely dispatch our best military efforts.

Wasn't intended toward you Feud. Was just a generalization. And I agree, we have a chance that any "aliens" that invade us will kick our butts. But you never know, a big giant spaceship can land and when the bay doors open, a bunch of little fluffy aliens comes running out wielding paper swords.

there are a million things they could put in galciv3.

like the differnce between russan and yugoslavian communism
or the way a diplonmat would dress for talking to an ally rather than a enemy

but can they fit it all in ?

Forum

Pronunciation: 'for-&m

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra /-&/

Etymology: Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door -- more at DOOR
1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b : a public meeting place for open discussion
c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

Forum Pronunciation: 'for-&m Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra /-&/ Etymology: Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door -- more at DOOR 1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

Aha! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I thought that was what that word meant. Hmmmm... things are becoming more and more interesting by the second.  
Oh, and good morning all!

Be careful of what I say? Because Brad is a Libertarian?

Cauldyth, you're a fraktard of the highest order. Did it ever occur to you that the Libertarians are not the Soviets and don't really care if somebody says they are crackheadish?

There's a difference between Libertarian and libertarian. One is a party, the other is a philosophy. I am not a Libertarian. I am a libertarian.

People who simply don't want to work will be ostracized

Ever thought that some people who don't participate in the system are political dissidents? Ever thought that some of these dissidents can't work because they are ostracized already?

Arbeit mach frei, Cauldyth? You and the rest of this country are too willing to kill off the poor and the disenchanted. I'm sure you love Jesus as well.

Maybe you're not a fraktard of the _highest_ order. That belongs to Achillus.

External force to unite us? Perhaps you missed the memo, Achillus. Communists, sharks and even space aliens have all been used to "unify" the larded masses of apathetic USian protoplasm. Today, our external unification force is the "terrorist."

Wheel you are on a roll with this one... what's with the subtle hostility so soon after banishment? Trust me brother, don't be tempted to persist with nonsense. Not proper advice but if you're going to blaze away save it for something/someone worth the effort, you know, something of substance to really debate and argue about, not trivial bull crap. Pick your fights and make them count!

True.

I'm afraid it's far more complicated then that. Let's pretend everyone decided to form a global democracy tommorow. Do we for a Federal, Confederal, or Unitary system? Will it there be a Congressional legislature or a Parliment? Will we have a President, Prime MInister, or both? Will representitives be chosen by proportional representation or a "first past the post system"? These may sound like trivial issues, but there are groups who are just as dedicated to a certain type of system as they are to thier country as a whole. There are dozens of varients of communism and fascism as well. Getting the nationas to agree to a world government type is just the first hurdle in issue. Then you actually have to design it, which is a whole differant ball game.

Well it not possible to turn everything over in one day, it would take time to buildup and of course there will always be killing sprees going on by the rebels. Just like in Iraq, cant believe how stupid the Americans are when they invading Iraq awhile back and didnt do it right, cost of alot of soliders that reduce American Morales.

I would agreed some ideas will have to come up with a better solution thru research & developments. And hopefully it not too late by the time we do form United Governments.

Well, congratulations on reading way too much into what I was saying AND getting every conclusion you came to from doing so wrong. My post simply consisted of some observations as a scientist about the evolution of us as a social species, with no intention of drawing any political conclusions from them. I realize that these days it's unheard of for someone to post some objective observations about something political without having an agenda they're trying to push. However, that's what I was doing. I don't claim to have the perfect solution for the issues facing modern society, and anyone who does is either lying or selling you something.

I have no interest in getting into political debates on these forums, but nor do I like being misrepresented by someone who seems determined to alienate everyone here. So with that said, a couple corrections:

Arbeit mach frei, Cauldyth? You and the rest of this country are too willing to kill off the poor and the disenchanted.

Wrong. I'm from Canada, and support social programs and wacky things like universal health care.

I'm sure you love Jesus as well.

Wrong. Atheist. Well, perhaps not "wrong" per se. From what we know of him, he sounds like he was a pretty laid-back, cool guy. I'm just an atheist.

And with that, I leave you to return to your childish name calling. Go on, you know you want to.

And with that, I leave you to return to your childish name calling. Go on, you know you want to.

Childish or not you need to look at your last reply as well. All you are attempting to do at this point is goad people into attacking you and/or your position. This all stayed pretty civil and that is amazing in and unto itself. Take your licks and deal with it. You're right, he's wrong... he's right, you're wrong... who cares. This was a pretty interesting thread and it made it all this way until finally... idiocy  

Sorry, the "go on, you know you want to" wasn't meant to goad it into happening, and in retrospect is sort of sounds that way I guess. I retract it. It was instead meant more as a commentary on his need to include insults in most of his posts.

Quit rationalizing, Cauldyth.

Childish or not you need to look at your last reply as well. All you are attempting to do at this point is goad people into attacking you and/or your position. This all stayed pretty civil and that is amazing in and unto itself. Take your licks and deal with it. You're right, he's wrong... he's right, you're wrong... who cares. This was a pretty interesting thread and it made it all this way until finally... idiocy

Still, all in all this is far more civil than I expected. And what is this I see? ES has become the voice of reason and moderation.   

Its not that I don't understand people, I just have more faith in our species. C'mon, bashing our species does not make you cool. Just like wearing that pink shirt, it doesn't say your cool, it just screams Gay.

Umm... no, you don't understand people at all, and apparently you're also a moron. Way to go with that.

You don't have faith in humanity, you have stupidity if you honestly believe a word of what you said. Humans have a precedent for not working together. Multiple precedents, although I was referring to the world wars. Remember them? WW2? America didn't show up until THEY were attacked, and when they did, the three superpowers on the western front started arguing about who was in command. French troops nearly rebelled against the conditions they had to live in. Humans do not like working together on such a large scale when there's so much pressure. Why should an invasion threatening humanity be any different?

(Incidentally: Using the word "gay" on the forums in a negative sense is likely to end in repurcussions. That and it makes you look like a mentally challenged five year old)

And what is this I see? ES has become the voice of reason and moderation

Yes Mumblefratz, I don't know what happened! This is most unusual behavior from me and I think it might be time to check for a fever... 
Besides, since vivaswan, I haven't found the need to be an ass as I can watch a lot of other people fill in the void that I have created. It is actually kind of fun. I can imagine it being like the scientists watching the monkeys get zapped for picking the wrong button... you get the drift   

amerrica is a great country that is crap at chosing there presidents and i'm not just saying that cause i'm a commie   

humans will never work together untill we all have the same values which will never happern till one country concers the rest of the world politicly or by war

I haven't found the need to be an ass as I can watch a lot of other people fill in the void

Yes, it does seem that there's no shortage of people willing to fill the void as you say. Even though vivaswan caused quite a stir with his Suggested Improvements thread, there was intelligence behind his posts, misdirected though it was. I feel even vivaswan has redeemable qualities and with the proper attitude adjustment could become a valued contributor to the GC2 community. Perhaps all he needs is a “timeout” to straighten him out. It’s seemed to have had a beneficial effect on others. Isn’t that right Evil Stormbringer and Wheeloffire?   

humans will never work together untill we all have the same values which will never happern till one country concers the rest of the world politicly or by war

getting along with other races might lead some problems to some people and i been in 15 states in the last 20 years and i cant believe how ppls are treated, another word racism. They can be shopping, walking in the park or working around each others.

It is sad that we all couldnt get along, infact i have no problems with others it just how they treat you and respect others. And i live in America too, but sometime i wish i was somewhere else.