America: Freedom to Facism

I strongly urge anyone who cares about this country to watch this movie. Unlike Michael Moore's partisan and politically motivated movies, Aaron Russo is able to look at the very serious issues facing our nation with objectivity, as a concerned citizen.

From IMDb: "A documentary that explores the connection between income tax collection and the erosion of civil liberties in America."

The conclusion will leave the uninitiated gasping for breathe, as Mr. Russo connects the dots from the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 to the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. and REAL ID acts of this century, all the while painting a vivid and frightening picture of who the true enemies of Freedom are.

"Stop being good Republicans. Stop being good Democrats. Start being good Americans."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=freedom+to+fascism
129,501 views 183 replies
Reply #1 Top
as a uk citizen i don't see all the things you do but do you think our countrys are becoming global police ?
Reply #2 Top
Yes, it's part of the plan. The central banks of Europe are working with the Federal Reserve to move us towards a one world government.
Reply #3 Top
Yes, it's part of the plan. The central banks of Europe are working with the Federal Reserve to move us towards a one world government.

Ah yes. The Illuminati, where have I heard this before?

This is just a shameless plug for a documentary film that has absolutely nothing to do with the game. It doesn't really matter whether you're for or against this, it simply has no place here. Everyone that doesn't post a reply to this thread is doing a great service to the GCII community.

Thank you for not replying.
Reply #4 Top
This is just a shameless plug for a documentary film that has absolutely nothing to do with the game. It doesn't really matter whether you're for or against this, it simply has no place here. Everyone that doesn't post a reply to this thread is doing a great service to the GCII community.

Thank you for not replying.

Yes, it's a shameless plug but it's also in the off-topic sub-forum.
You know, the place you go to talk about stuff that isn't related to GC2.
Reply #5 Top
Yes, it's a shameless plug but it's also in the off-topic sub-forum.
You know, the place you go to talk about stuff that isn't related to GC2.


Yep, that's why it's in off-topic. It's not like I don't play and enjoy this game. I put this post where it belongs. If you have a point you'd like to make, Mumblefratz, go for it. There's no need to come in here just to bash me.

Reply #6 Top
Yep, that's why it's in off-topic. It's not like I don't play and enjoy this game. I put this post where it belongs. If you have a point you'd like to make, Mumblefratz, go for it. There's no need to come in here just to bash me.

My point is not to bash you, it's to reiterate the point that Kryo has made countless number of times. And that point is that political posts inevitably devolve into flame wars (see, it’s already starting). A second point is that though this is an off topic forum that doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be at least some tenuous relation to the game.

It is possible that this thread will be able to walk the tightrope just this side of civility and remain unlocked, but a far better place for discussions like this is JoeUser.com Forums. This is posted in Kryo’s pinned post at the head of the Off Topic Forum. Someone that post’s a political post in light of this obvious reminder and who responds with a “What, me worry?” attitude is just not being reasonable.
Reply #7 Top
Wow Mumbles, you getting off on the right foot this morning or what? I think the daylight savings time has screwed with all of us a little this fine Monday morning!  
Oh, as an aside, have you finished your game yet? I still haven't loaded the update on to my computer but I assume that it's safe to do so... if you know what I mean.
Slick little bugger, this SanDisk micro flash, 512mb for 10 bucks, can't beat it!
Reply #8 Top
I don't know who's worse, USA for thinking they can simply walk all over the world with and not worrying about the consequences, the UK for saying "How high" when America says "Jump", or every other country in the world for doing absoutely NOTHING.

All the visions we see in the media today of a united planet (take Star Trek or even Galactic Civilizations) is becoming less and less likely the way that the UK and US are rampaging across the globe in search of more oil.

I'm a UK citizen, do I sound proud?
Reply #9 Top
Come on guys, like Mumbles said, nothing will come of this. Are we proud of our respective governments, no, probably not. Is it our fault that our gov's are like they are? Yes, in the long run it is our fault for allowing it to continue. Imperialist conquest is all that our history is showing us, and it is all that we seem to know. Greed is behind all of it. Electricity and water and heating fuel should be free, or at least reduced in price, since it should be a given that everyone in the world should have food, shelter, clothing, and any other base necessities regardless of their income. Or how about health care? We could go on and on in here with regards to these issues but why? We all know that our governments are wicked and evil, disgusting and vile. Does anyone disagree with this? That should be enough said. 
Oh, and it's fascism. Couldn't let that one get away... can you say grammar nazi's anyone   
Reply #10 Top
Give me freedom to fascism over freedom to communism anyday.
Reply #11 Top
Mumble, I've generally found your posts to be very constructive, but now I have to constructively disagree, not least because I've been thinking for a while about this vague semi-ban on talking politics here. I fully appreciate and support the goal of keeping down flame wars, but I'm a political scientist (non-practicing), so the no-politics thing seems odd to me on a couple of levels:
1) "Off Topic" seems a fairly clear boundary to contain real-world political discussions
2) I'm apparently not alone in thinking that the social modeling is the weakest aspect of GCII and can imagine some of these semi-idological discussions having long term value for devs who will build GCIII (not necessarily this thread--I haven't seen the film and have no idea what the ratio of conspiracy theory to economic theory might be).
Reply #12 Top
Argggggh.

I vote for an immediate lock to this thread!
Reply #13 Top
p.s. to Evil S: I'm a professional grammar nazi *and* a (libarary)-card carrying US socialist
Reply #14 Top
If us earth people every want to survive in the great galaxay, we must become a united planet, with one government, otherwise some weak race with little more than hyperdrive and lazer 1 will conquor the planet we call home, and we will be no more.

Reply #15 Top
Considering that the Dominionists are pretty much running the US and UK governments and the Federal Reserve, and that they are vehemently opposed to a "world government," I find everyone else's paranoid conspiracy theories to be unsound.

The fascism thing is dead on, but the rest is pretty much fantasy...
Reply #16 Top
What's wrong with a one world government? Especially a one world government with a founding basis on Liberty and all crap. It's part of the social evolution that naturally takes place. Since as a race, we stopped evolving physically, we do it socially. Also, besides, would you rather have a world government based on Liberty and Democracy or one based under a Totalitarian government and Islam?

It's the trend. Smaller things come together and become bigger more complex things. Like the single cell organisms that joined together to become larger complex organisms, its just how the universe works. Atleast we could (even in a minor way) decide what that larger thing can be.

Note: Under Islam's fundamentalist teaching, we wouldn't even be playing this game. And stardock developers would have been executed.
Reply #17 Top
The trend in history is for all the big complex things to fail.This trend will never stop.
Reply #18 Top
*not getting involved this time*

*whistles innocently*
Reply #19 Top
@ Achillus: 1) We haven't "stopped evolving physically" just because we have evolved language and technology--evolution is *very* slow. 2) You are confusing Islam with fundamentalism. What you said about the game/Stardock would be equally true under a fundamentalist Christian, Jewish, or possibly even Hindu theocracy b/c the game clearly has a materialist orientation.

@Ashbery76: You appear to be confusing the historical pattern of imperial rise and fall with the global trend of increasing social complexity. Rome fell, Britain does not rule the seas any longer, and the US will almost certainly lose air and sea supremacy sometime in the next century or two. But pervasive technologies like writing and farming seem very durable over time and they inevitably give rise to complexity.
Reply #20 Top
What you said about the game/Stardock would be equally true under a fundamentalist Christian, Jewish, or possibly even Hindu theocracy b/c the game clearly has a materialist orientation.


Indeed, Greece (a mostly Orthodox Christian country) recently banned ALL video games. The EU wasn't too happy about that though.
Reply #21 Top
@ Achillus: 1) We haven't "stopped evolving physically" just because we have evolved language and technology--evolution is *very* slow. 2) You are confusing Islam with fundamentalism. What you said about the game/Stardock would be equally true under a fundamentalist Christian, Jewish, or possibly even Hindu theocracy b/c the game clearly has a materialist orientation.


Swicord, I did not mean to imply Islam in total. I was referring to Fundumentalist Islam such as the Taliban. The misunderstanding is my fault. And you are somewhat correct about fundumentalism in other religion. But, since the growing threat right now is in Islam, I use them as an example. If it was christianity, I would have used Pat Robertson and Billy Graham as an example.

Also, because of widespread intermixing of the species, we have stopped evolving to a point where it will produce a new species in the next 50,000 to 100,000 years. And with advancements in our genetic science, mutations will be "cured." One major factor in evolution is isolation. And in today's world, only a few group of human population is isolated. And I'm sorry to tell all the comic book fans out there, but we will never see anything like the X-Men, it is Fiction.

So, in a way, we are evolving still, but much more slower and the possibility of having a new human species/sub species is not likely until we can become isolated again. Who knows, maybe if we settle other planets, the prospect of multi-sub species human is possible.
Reply #22 Top
I have to constructively disagree, not least because I've been thinking for a while about this vague semi-ban on talking politics here.

I appreciate the constructive nature of your post, if all replies in these types of threads were similar to yours, I’d have far less objection to these topics. The problem is that most replies are nowhere as reasoned or as reasonable as yours.

Besides the tendency to end in flames, I see a couple of other problems with these types of topics (religion would also fit in this category). The first is that real world politics, as opposed to game politics, is a very complex issue. To give it the full consideration it deserves requires far more than the two sentences that are pretty much the limit of the average poster’s attention span. Plus even if a full gamut of political discussion would be understood and appreciated, do you honestly think that any of the underlying issues could be solved here in the GalCiv2 Off Topic Forum?

People also tend to have very polarized political opinions and not all of them have any basis in fact. In fact, a strong argument could be made for the case that people’s adherence to any one set of political tenet’s is more a matter of faith that of reason. The point of this is that if we have a different set of political beliefs, then you are extremely unlikely to be able to sway my opinion, nor will I be able to sway yours. If this is the case, as I maintain it is, what benefit can come of the discussion? There is no real possibility that either of us could come to a more enlightened level of understanding, the most likely outcome is that we just end up pissed off at each other because this one called that one an ahole.

But specifically to your points, I would consider such things as general science fiction or unrelated PC games to be in line with what I thought was a legitimate Off Topic thread. I would consider politics and religion to have no real place here. If you look at the forum statistics, you often see ten to thirty members and two thousand guests. If I were a guest, looking at the Everything link, which includes the Off Topic thread, and I saw some of the recent flame wars spawned by topics such as this, I would be far less likely to buy the game and have any desire to participate here.

In my opinion, it’s ludicrous to equate the social modeling aspect of GC2 (I didn’t even realize that there was one) with a post whose title combines the words America, Freedom and Fascism (and of course, per usual, Fascism was misspelled).

Anyway, in the time it’s taken me to write this response I see that the usual suspects that are interested in this type of thread are starting to flock towards it like flies to you know what. I usually try to make pretty much these same arguments in the attempt at avoiding the inevitable results of these threads, but they haven’t worked so far, why would now be the exception. Since I’m now far beyond the two sentence attention span limit, I’m sure only the reasonable and intelligent are still reading this post. The proof of my argument will lie with the posts to follow. This will be the last I have to say on the subject, at least on this thread.

@Evil S. I didn’t want to respond because I don’t care to encourage these threads, but I haven’t completed my game yet, I probably have two weeks before I finish, but like I said, the next game I start will be on v1.4 (or later).   
Reply #23 Top
the possibility of having a new human species/sub species is not likely until we can become isolated again. Who knows, maybe if we settle other planets, the prospect of multi-sub species human is possible.


See, these are the sorts of things I hope that devs might skim when forcing themselves to check out a "stupid political thread." If you replace "human" with "player" and try to think how GCIII might work, well, I can start having more fun than I should when paid work is waiting on me. It is precisely *because* we humans have rudimentary genetic technology that the notion of species itself is not as clear as it was a century ago and that the notion of when we "can become isolated again" must yield to "when a sufficiently well-equipped faction can successfully transform their membership to a viable gene pool that cannot cross-breed with us old folks." (Apologies to any pro biologists for my abuse of current definitions of species--this is rhetoric)
Reply #24 Top
Sorry...must reply.

While I oppose a "one-world government" (even though there probably should be one, but all you have to do is look at our species and it's easy to come to the conclusion "ain't gonna happen") I am more opposed to all this America, UK, European bashing BS.

Conspiracies are interesting to explore but the simply facts are THERE IS NO PROOF OF ANYTHING! It's all speculation, guessing, and twisting of facts. I thank God I was born an American, there's no other place I'd rather be. I wish we didn't have to be world "police" but just look at the majority of the world; it's chaotic, corrupt (far beyond that of western countries, I mean check out the news from sub-Saharan Africa sometime), and generally uncivilized.

To "Mighty Mongoose": You seem to attribute the current conflicts in the world as a quest for oil. First of all I think you have failed to fully grasp the importance of oil on almost all the economies of the world. Secondly, if the Kim Jong Ils and Mahmoud Ahmadinejads (to name just two) of the world would focus more on bettering their societies instead of building nuclear weapons maybe America and the UK wouldn't have to sacrifice thousands to try and stop them from causing further instability. Have you listened to Iran lately? Since when is nuclear energy a "right"? Give me a break...they want bombs and everyone knows it.

The hard truth is after WWII the Allies should have dominated and democratized as much of the world as possible while they had the power to do it. The Soviet Union should have been destroyed before it ever had a chance to grow. Russia would have been 1000x better off today. Mao should have been taken out long before his revolution succeded. None of this happend of course and look at the state of world affairs now.

Of course this is just my opinion, but until I see a genuine "Illuminated One", Freemason, Skull and Bones, Thule Society member, or whatever come forward and say "Yes there is a conspiracy, I am part of it and here is the proof" I must remain a solid skeptic.

P.S I love the fact that all the "one-world" conpiracies completely ignore China even though they represent 1/3 of the world's population. It's always the USA, the UK, and the Rothchilds.

Ok...rant over. You can lock this thread now.
Reply #25 Top
The Soviet Union should have been destroyed before it ever had a chance to grow.


And here's a ferociously political claim that has a sharply clear and interesting game connection: how should (can?) the diplomatic model respond to a player or AI betraying an ally after that ally has been essential to the defeat of a mutual enemy?

p.s. Yes, I find the quoted claim an excellent example of home-grown barbarism . And Pokerface, I basically agree with you about the lack-of-China-in-the-rants thing, but likely for different reasons b/c AFAIK the past few decades are about as internationlist as "China" has been, historically speaking, and very few of us phonetic-alphabet people have anywhere near enough understanding of those folks who melted down the world's first movable-type printing equipment to make cannons because the new emperor was not such a big fan of literature as his predecessor.