While I sympathize with your frustration carfar02, how could you come to that conclusion?  Nearly every single one of the 50+ items in this changelog can be traced back to user-provided feedback, some lines specifically thanking the user who submitted:

https://forums.stardock.com/522895/get;3904069

There are scores of other prior changes since Groupy 2 beta in May of this year; again, a direct result of user feedback:

https://www.stardock.com/products/groupy/history?irclickid=TuFQ7fyxyxyOTwBwUx0Mo3cgUkFTjvR2SzI3QU0&irgwc=1&im_rewards=1#:~:text=Groupy%202%20Public%20Beta%201%20(Released%2005/10/2023)

Even the most casual glance at prior Groupy beta and release threads illustrates our activity and how dedicated we are to engaging our clients:

https://forums.stardock.com/518687/groupy-2-public-beta-feedback-thread

https://forums.stardock.com/520648/groupy-2-public-beta-2-feedback-thread

https://forums.stardock.com/520796/page/1/#replies

https://forums.stardock.com/521400/groupy-21-beta-feedback-thread

https://forums.stardock.com/521553/groupy-21-release-feedback-thread

https://forums.stardock.com/521947/groupy-211-beta-feedback-thread

https://forums.stardock.com/522895/groupy-212-release-feedback-thread

Of the issues you detailed, how many are not an issue if FreeCommander is not used (not installed)? If you can reproduce it at will with FreeCommander not in use (uninstalled if possible), please provide exact steps we can use to recreate it - including what native Windows applications (or MS Office) to test with. Accompanying video is always welcome. 

I do see this when opening CP from any location.  However, that follows suit as CP is an instance Windows File Explore itself:

Regards,
Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

 Do you have other 3rd party application that change Windows explorer, such as Explorerpatcher etc

I did have Actual Window Manager running. I still have it installed but I have stopped it from auto-starting to test if it is affecting it. So, without it running, I still see the same problem as before. This didn't start occurring until the most recent update to 2.12. Is there a way to roll back to a previous version until this is resolved? It is really annoying not being able to read the toolbar.

What concerns me is that it may still have a service running.  If its not too much trouble to uninstall it, reboot, and try again, that would be very helpful.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

I uninstalled Groupy 2 and still saw the same behavior with new explorer windows. So I guess it is not a Groupy thing but a Windows thing. I'm still trying to figure it out though.

KeePassXC automatically attaches itself to Microsoft Excel instances, and moving said, opened, Excel windows to whatever monitor KeePassXC opens on. When KeePassXC is closed, the Excel windows then stay on that new monitor.

Further, the ability to exclude KeePassXC windows from Groupy is missing from the top menu bar, while it's present for all other applications that I've run across.

In addition, when manually adding KeePassXC.exe to the exclusions list in Groupy Settings, the behavior is exactly the same. Please help.

I finally figured out the issue. Before Groupy had the option to Replace File Explorer tabs in Windows 11 22H2, I followed a tutorial to disable the File Explorer tabs (most likely through the Windows Registry) so only the Groupy tabs would show. The toolbar started to color incorrectly after this new option was added to Groupy and the option wouldn't actually work.

I found this tutorial on how to fix the tabs using another tool. After following Solution#4 in the tutorial, it fixed the tabs. Now the toolbar colors correctly and the new Groupy setting to Replace File Explorer tabs toggles correctly on and off.

The "Focused background bar : Custom color" is not respected; it is always "Mica style" regardless of the setting. I have "Apply the tab color to integrated tabs in Windows Notepad and File Explorer" checked.

Windows 11 - 22635.2700; Groupy 2.12  (This was also the case on non-insider releases.)

pelaird

Quoting pelaird, reply 32

The "Focused background bar : Custom color" is not respected; it is always "Mica style" regardless of the setting. I have "Apply the tab color to integrated tabs in Windows Notepad and File Explorer" checked.





Windows 11 - 22635.2700; Groupy 2.12  (This was also the case on non-insider releases.)

pelaird

End of pelaird's quote

That setting would not apply to the background of integrated tabs as the background is the window itself not Groupy.

There is a subtle issue that makes it nearly impossible to resize a window from the top when "add a background bar to the tabs" is enabled (the default).

Groupy v2.12 - windows 11 - 22H2 (OS Build 22621.2506)

Video is the easiest way to understand the problem...

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEw-QZTaAz0

Explanation: When I mouse to the top of a non-tabbed window (with no bar), the top-resize target appears within 3-5 pixels above or below the top edge of the native window, but then a moment later, the Groupy background bar-appears and it takes over the the activation area for the top-resize for any pixels above the native window edge (because they become a click target for the background bar instead).... this makes it virtually impossible to grab the top edge of the native window. However, trying to then go for the top edge of the background bar is equally hard, because if you mouse just a pixel above the top edge of the background bar, it quickly disappears. Try it. Be frustrated.

I recommend two fixes: 

1. make the Groupy background bar *not* grab mouse-over events for the bottom 3-5 pixels of the background bar (aka just above the native window top)... This will allow the native resize bar to work normally on the native window edge.

2. make the background-bar watch mouse events for ~10 pixels *above* the groupy background bar, and consider them valid for keeping the background bar active (don't start timing out the background bar until the cursor moves *more* than 10 pixels above it)

Thanks for Group2 , I don't know what I would do without it.

It's not just me... multiple users have reported experiencing this same issue with Groupy. The problem is that it fails to follow the set rules and automatically groups new windows in a seemingly arbitrary manner even when those new windows are in the "never automatically group" list.. This issue is not limited to any particular program but has been seen in many programs in the "never automatically group" list.

In my video, I show the Thorium browser maximized to full screen and then I open Everything with a hotkey and it fails to follow the rules and automatically groups into the Thorium browser group. The picture I post shows that Everything is set to "never automatically group". When I pull the Everything window out of the group, the size and column widths have changed from how I liked them (you'll have to trust me on that) and spent time setting, causing frustration and inconvenience. This resizing happens every time a program is auto grouped, making it time-consuming and tedious to resize windows of different programs to suit my preferences. As a matter of fact, it would be a great idea to make it so Groupy does not ever change the size of a window that it groups or make it such that when a window is ungrouped, it goes back to the exact size and column widths as it was before going into a group.

While Groupy's auto-grouping feature is meant to be helpful, it becomes a real pain when it goes against the declared rules.

Everything is version 1.5a and Thorium is Version 117.0.5938.157 (Official Build) (64-bit). 

Please give this bug the attention it deserves and have it fixed. It's important to work towards finding solutions to make the software the best it can be.

The grouping rules in the screenshot above show that Everything is set to "Never automatically group"

Thorium and Everything Grouping

Hopefully, this link goes to the video...

Carfar, please post an example and repro steps with native Windows apps (calc, calendar, Edge, File Explorer, even MS Office apps would be fine, etc).  FreeCommander and Thorium are tools most don't use and we need to be able to readily use your repro steps to verify issues.

That is not to say we cannot \ wont address issues with those apps, we may, but we need to see that any reported issue is worth the time to address (if it's possible at all). 

Thanks,
Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Admins, I think this means of getting problems solved for this app is supremely inferior. These issues really need to be handled on a one-by-one basis with the individual.

Issues are easily overlooked that are posted by past individuals when trying to solve another people's problems. Also, I wanted notifications about my particular problem above, not ones posted by other people (as they don't pertain to me).

Perhaps the team can do away with this method of troubleshooting? Or, if needed, limit it to a thread-by-thread basis for issues. In no form of disrespect, my issue posted almost 2 weeks ago has been completely ignored. Yes, I am a paying customer.
https://forums.stardock.com/522895/get;3907025

Then again, perhaps I simply posted this problem to the wrong thread, and misunderstood exactly what this thread was designed for.

Thanks!

I would disagree and I suspect everyone who posts to StackOverflow, Reddit, etc would as well.  The wealth of knowledge that is preserved forever there \ here is simply invaluable.

What you pointed to, a general feedback thread is more of a MASH unit, to triage issues and, yes, get them into new threads when the problem is more complex or unique.

If your issue remains, by all means, please create a new thread with all the details you can provide (Windows version, appa and their versions, repro steps, and most helpful, images and video). 

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Will do.

Auto-grouping feedback.

(1) Please give us a way to use the really easy saved-group UI features (like right clicking on a groupy tab to add to group) for groups which auto-add windows to group. 

(2) 

Why?

The only reason I ever made a saved group in Groupy1 is to auto-add windows, but Groupy2 saved-groups do not auto-add windows. The UI for saved groups is really really nice and easy, where I can just right click on a window-title to add it to a saved group... But the UI for "group rules" is super clunky and I have to manually go into groupy settings and muck around with it to get windows to save to a custom-rules-group (with auto-add functionality)

Most of the windows in my auto-add groups automatically start on login, so there is no way for me to "launch" the group of windows which are already started, as seems to be intended with the standard groupy2 saved-groups feature.

How?

One option is to provide a toggle per saved-group for "auto add windows to this group when launched/found". 

An even better option is to merge the saved-group and custom-group-rules features into one thing, so when I right click a groupy titlebar and "add to group" it's adding to the single group list.. and I can setup whether each group is auto-add or not, and if I want, edit the window membership using the "custom rules" stuff even if I originally started it by using the simple "create group with these windows" feature.

This screen recording is of some apps you are more familiar with. They do not follow the rules either.

Stardock Apps Auto-Grouping

My understanding is that 3 levels of rules are broken in order for these apps to auto-group.

1. The box is checked so that identical windows auto-group unless they are already in another group. I can only take that to mean that non-identical windows should not auto-group and is the case in the screen recording.

2. The box is checked so that CTRL must be held down in order for new windows to auto-group. I didn't do that in any case. At the beginning of the screen recording, there were no open windows and I opened each app with Listary.

3. As a last resort, we have the rule to define apps that should never auto-group. I can only take that to mean under any circumstances. Only Microsoft Store doesn't have one of these rules applied, however, it still broke the first 2 regardless. Fences, Groupy, and Windowblinds all grouped together upon opening and all 3 have the explicit rule to never auto-group.

I've asked for clearer definitions of the rules but was met with only silence.

Have I misunderstood what any of these rules mean? I look forward to learning how to make them work for me if so, but if not, please give this problem the attention it deserves. I'm not the only one who has complained of this behavior out of Groupy.

Quoting carfar02, reply 41

This screen recording is of some apps you are more familiar with. They do not follow the rules either.

Stardock Apps Auto-Grouping

My understanding is that 3 levels of rules are broken in order for these apps to auto-group.

1. The box is checked so that identical windows auto-group unless they are already in another group. I can only take that to mean that non-identical windows should not auto-group and is the case in the screen recording.

2. The box is checked so that CTRL must be held down in order for new windows to auto-group. I didn't do that in any case. At the beginning of the screen recording, there were no open windows and I opened each app with Listary.

3. As a last resort, we have the rule to define apps that should never auto-group. I can only take that to mean under any circumstances. Only Microsoft Store doesn't have one of these rules applied, however, it still broke the first 2 regardless. Fences, Groupy, and Windowblinds all grouped together upon opening and all 3 have the explicit rule to never auto-group.

I've asked for clearer definitions of the rules but was met with only silence.

Have I misunderstood what any of these rules mean? I look forward to learning how to make them work for me if so, but if not, please give this problem the attention it deserves. I'm not the only one who has complained of this behavior out of Groupy.





 

End of carfar02's quote

I believe "Never automatically group" means "Automatically exclude from auto grouping all 'App Name' windows." Which indicates that windows that belong to 'App Name' will never be grouped together.

Automatic grouping by windows name would be nice , when I start my solution on visual studio it open alot of browser windows for swagger and I would like to group them automatically with the name "Swagger " 

Sean,

I've given you the evidence again, including several of your own programs such as Fences, Groupy, and WindowBlinds. I also show Microsoft Store. But these programs do not adhere to the rules I have set up. So far, you've completely ignored this evidence you specifically asked for and which further supports my belief that getting support from Stardock is difficult. I don't know what else to say because every time I provide evidence, there is never any direct conversation about what might be the problem. Am I creating the rules incorrectly? Is Groupy truly not following the rules I've set up? I don't know because the conversation is never held, I'm always met with an excuse or silence.

Currently, I can't use Groupy because of how it groups windows together in a manner that is incomprehensible to me.

Hello carfar02,

I watched your video and I wonder what software you use to launch those application? I wonder if you still have same outcome if you launch it via your Start panel or taskbar pinned icons or Windows Explorer. Just as a test, could you try those method please.

Thank you,

Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

It's in the post... Listary.

And this one?

Thank you,

Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

As noted, we need to eliminate all other 3rd party software (where possible) from the equation, Carfar.  That does not mean that if it is shown to be the cause we cannot accommodate it, rather, we need to know what the root issue is. 

I can demonstrate that the rules are functioning as detailed:

Automatically group identical windows...
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2023-11-28_11-52-41.mp4

Automatically group identical windows unless excluded:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2023-11-28_12-04-23.mp4

Group newly opened while Ctrl held:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2023-11-28_12-19-41.mp4

While there are some windows where it fails with ('Modern Windows' - the VPN settings and calc in that example, ), it does function as expected.

Group newly opened while Ctrl held only if not excluded:
https://cdn.stardock.us/support/uploads/2023-11-28_12-10-45.mp4

That one has some mixed results but it could be a timing thing (how long 'newly opened' is for example), as you can see it works at the end.  It would also be rare that you tell Groupy to exclude the app but then do so when Ctrl is held. Again, it could be a timing thing but I will look into it.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Sean,

The software must be able to work in all non-edge cases, without exceptions. The video I'm about to show is not an edge case and should be functioning correctly. Sorry about the abysmal video editing, as I downloaded the software just for this case so it was completely new to me. I pixelated my name from the start menu but ended up pixelating much more than intended, which obscured some of the content I was trying to show.

The video shows me using Start11 v2.03 to open Groupy, Fences, WindowBlinds, and Start11 from their shortcuts on the Start11 menu. All four apps are grouped together into one group, which violates several rules. Although I pixelated the video excessively, it is clear at the end that all four apps are in one group. I can send you the unedited video if required; I just wanted to keep my name off the internet for privacy reasons.

The screenshot below the video shows how I have set up a Stardock tab and added some apps to it. This is where I opened the apps from in the video.

I believe the most critical rule, which should never be violated, is that Groupy, Fences, and WindowBlinds are set to "Never automatically group", yet they do so anyway. A previous picture in this thread shows these rules being set.

Here's the video:  Video of Stardock Apps Auto-Grouping

My laptop is using Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (0S Build 22631.2715)

Speaking of Start11, it's really amazing. Choosing the perfect layout among so many options can be overwhelming and I'm enjoying the process of finding the right one for me. The team has really done an outstanding job in creating this powerful tool.

I used to have a great experience using Groupy too, but at present, I don't even turn it on due to the reasons I've presented. I look forward to hearing how these concerns can be dealt with and the situation can be improved. Please remember that others have expressed their concerns with these very same issues and it is not just me.

Thanks...

Hello, is there anybody out there?