hey - I am a believer and a cgristain so no need to preach to me!

back to topic!

cgristain

spelling - christian

How do you know, are you gay? Are you omniscient? Id really like to ask you some questions if you are.

There is scientific evidence proving both sides of the nature vs nurture argument. The most likely explaination is that its both. Many people are born with predispositions towards certain behavior, THATS A FACT. Many people are taught certain behavior, THATS A FACT. In either case, there is no obvious reason for people to be gay, they simply are. If it is a learned behavior, its too deeply ingrained into a persons habitual thought process to change without serious negative side effects. If its a born in trait, then there is no way of changing it without altering a persons genetic structure or anatomy. But then that brings up more touchy subjects.

My point remains the same though. Leave the judging to be done by the pros. Justice will be done...eventually.
[Message Edited]

Chi Chi:

This is not the place to be discussing that topic. Either start your own thread... (I would advise against that) ...Or accept the fact that people will not always agree with you and carry on with life.

Kona, dont feed the fire.

My original point was that mj is entitled to fair judgement. Perfectly on topic. My religous reference was mainly targeted at all the "false witness" against mj. And my last post was aimed at the assumption that mj could be born the way he is. I believe this thread was started for my thoughts, i didnt ask for agreement, nor did i ask for another argument to be brought up. Im merely stating my point of view. RESPECT. Thats my point!

I DONT ASK FOR AGREEMENT AND I DONT ASK ACCEPTANCE. I wont say anything more in this thread if people find my mere opinion so threatening that I need to be advised to not speak my mind.

There is nothing wrong with stating that MJ deserves a 'fair trial' (provided you are direct and to-the-point) but, carring on about homosexuality is off topic...

I think youre still confused about my posts, I will be more than happy to elaborate. Perhaps youre not reading my topic close enough and associating it too closely with previous topics. My 3rd post was in response to techcats post about MJ being born as a pedophile and only the first line was to kona. I can understand the confusion there. I hope I clarified my intentions sufficiently.

I believe I see...

I do suggest you learn to use the 'Q' (as in quote) button.

Im glad you understand. Ill be sure to look into that quicktime Q button next time. Things like this happen all too much. Anyways, back on topic now please....

My public opinions aside, i dont think mikey is getting out of this one.

1. Homosexuals are not born that way. They are born a man or a woman. Homosexuality is a choosen sexuality. Whether one is conditioned to continue that behavior does not mean they are born that way. No one has found a homosexuality gene. That is ridiculous. Someone can be born a herione addict, but as they grow, it becomes a choice.

2. No one is born a pedophile either. It is a Psychological abnormailty caused by childhood trauma or other such trauma or psychologial abnormality. Homosexuals and pedophiles are similar abnormal behaviors. It is common that some male homosexuals like children sexually too. It is sick and needs to be treated. Unfortunately, homosexuality is accepted instead of being treated. Thank god that pedophilia isn't accepted. If MJ is a pedophile, then he needs treatment. I believe that such abnormal behavior is a condition of our society. The problem with MJ may have been that his condition was ignored instead of diagnosed. If he is even a pedophile, which may be true. If it is, he needs help, not condemnation, not persecution, not "stringing up".

I dont think i would blame our society for pedophilia. There are records showing that pedophilia has been around for thousands of years. And it's also prominent in many other societies over the world. So blaming our society is not a very thought out scapegoat.

Maybe you should look at the APA's list of mental disorders. You might be surprised what the real pros have to say about both disorders. I'd also look at some of Sigmund Freuds work about human sexuality and pedophilia. Aside from some of his more radical views on sexuality, he did state some very ingenius new ideas about the topic of human sexuality. He's still considered by most modern psychologists as one of the most influential people in the history of psychological history and much of his work is still considered valid to this day.

Sexual repression is considered a possible cause for a lot of psychosexual disorders including pedophilia by many modern psychologists. Think about who those repressors are. Im in no way saying everyone should be out fulfilling their sexual fantasies, that would be baaaaaad. But expression of those types of feelings in other ways is perfectly healthy if not practiced too infrequently. If people were less repressed they would be more forthcoming to get help if they were a pedophile and it would decrease the amount of sexual crimes. It makes sence.

OK...let's just leave the topic of 'homosexuality' entirely out of this thread, as not only is it confusing people but also it appears many are also confused about it as well.

Move it to a different thread if you 'must'.

Thanks....

cgristain

I like that better

With the real meaning *christian*applied to it of course, but it's origional and I dunno why, but I like it

@Jafo, you mean I can't rant about Fraud?

Or his cocaine induced incestious desires and hang up about his wee wee that he justified by applying it to everyone on the planet having the same hidden desires he held?

Ok I won't

I have to admit I think the news is rail roading this.

It was wildly reported that Michael wanted to go to South America and had to be sedated on the plane because he was going 'bonkers'.

The news and many of those 'arm chair lawyers' felt that anyone who was innocent, would not want to run away.

(yeah, no one who is actually innocent goes to jail)

They must have taken a real close look at the judicial system when it comes to guilt or innocence. (it a good system but it not perfect by any means)

Now come to find out according to the planes closed circuit tapes he was calm the whole trip, laughing sometimes, quiet other times AND THAT'S IT!



I am still wondering about those 'love' poems he wrote to the child. How explicit are they?


And to top that off, tell me how this will end up being about money later on? Somehow I think this was a trap the whole time. A set up by the parents from the beginning.

But we will see I guess... I'll admit the sleeping with kids in your bed thing is very weird (but I bet in some countries or cultures it is not)

This whole thing stinks from both sides to me.


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I think that what is passed off as news today is nothing more than Rag's you find in the isle stands at the checkout counter on TV 24/7...

They spend to much time attempting to make mini-drama's out of everything that hit's the wires.

Instead of presenting the news, they try to incite emotional reaction from the people interviewed, the people at home wathcing and the people who get it washed down and emblemished through the rumor mills. Hell they are rumor mills anymore these days (news channels including news papers)...

MJ's side of the story...

http://www.mjnews.us
[Message Edited]

You know what I found so odd? Last night on Keith Oberman (msnbc) it was mentioned that the Mother and Son who make this claim are the ones from the Docu ran last year.

In it she and he states without question that nothing wrong ever happen(s)ed with MJ and the boy.

For whatever reason she and he might have done this, it does leave a reasonable doubt in my mind that what they now claim is in fact true. This alone is enough for me to sit back and wait before making any kind of judgment.

sorry jafo, last worth about it,

"1. Homosexuals are not born that way. They are born a man or a woman. Homosexuality is a choosen sexuality. Whether one is conditioned to continue that behavior does not mean they are born that way. No one has found a homosexuality gene. That is ridiculous. Someone can be born a herione addict, but as they grow, it becomes a choice."

Actually they did, will find the source for you this evening.

yes as a matter of fact there is a difference in gentics and they have also found a difference in the chemicals produced in the brain. It isn't just a huamn thing either, it is a anmail issue. There have been a number of studies on animals which led to the discoveries in humans supporting the fact that there are actually pre-dispositions of 4 different orientations. Gay, Lesbian, Bi and Straight (always wondered if the use of Straight really ment all others are Bent? )....

Rreading is a wonderful thing, reading as much as you can on as many topics as you can find is even better...

[Message Edited]

But you know what, it doesn't matter. The Church and the Government do not belong in the middle of Adult relationships or in anyones bedroom. People deserve equal rights across the board, period.

anyway....

MJ should not have to face a trial in public before the one in court even starts, no one should. Innocent until proven guilty means squat these days for many who are the first to jump up and claim how free and just the USA is. They in fact play a large part in dragging it down to the dirt level and drag it through the mud only to cringe while attempting to divert or bluster with anger when pushed to face it.

I like cheese.

@

I like cheese

joetheblow

1. Homosexuals are not born that way. They are born a man or a woman. Homosexuality is a choosen sexuality. Whether one is conditioned to continue that behavior does not mean they are born that way. No one has found a homosexuality gene. That is ridiculous. Someone can be born a herione addict, but as they grow, it becomes a choice.

Ignorance is bliss

Ignorance is bliss

ah yup and it seems some are either blessed or refuse anything other than what they are directed to accept...

oh well... *sigh*