and about the double standard, I think when a newbie comes and blurts crazy words all over most don't know the motive behind the words that may "seem" offensive (but not even meant to be) but when a person that has been here at WC for a while they pretty much know their personilty/charactor already and feel where they are coming from w/ their words so that is why they sometimes get the break, ppl get misread all the time by words...
[Message Edited]

Doreen, you're right... it is a place to have fun. I'm replying to the thread in its main topic, if it is a 'family place' where the kids and parents can hang out, having fun means leaving adult fun out. Thats all.

well it's such a hard call to make on what to moderate and what not to cuz ppl communicate so differently and when you throw kids into that factor it's complicated I guess.
Some kids are so street wise they offend adults! hehe

well it's such a hard call to make on what to moderate and what not to cuz ppl communicate so differently and when you throw kids into that factor it's complicated I guess.
Some kids are so street wise they offend adults! hehe

whoops sorry bout that double post?

thats very true, your right. It does get complicated when you throw kids into the mix. But thats the thing, with it being stressed that its a family place, then mom guard as you put it doesn't necessarily come off here.

well we could ask for ID's on certain threads? hehe
/me gets busy and stops messing up Jafo's thread before he spanks me...

OK. Lets define "kids" please. Are we talking about children (12 and under) or about teenagers?
I don't think many children come here, and as far as teens go, well, I don't know about girls, but I can tell you from memory that sex is ALL that teenage boys talk about.

I think most of us moms that come out to play on the msg boards would prefer not to have the mom guard up so much? I seen nothing wrong w/ what China said here on this msg board at all it's the place to enjoy skinning and being yourself and having fun, NOT being a mom...

Hear, hear.

People, please stop using the "this is a family site" excuse to try to wipe out everything that you don't think is "appropriate".
As I've already said, I try to speak politely and respectfully on here to ALL members regardless of age, but this isn't a daycare.
[Message Edited]

Whoa paxx......sex is all that teenage boys talk about ????????

When i was a teenager there was motorbikes, girls, sex, motorbikes, sex, girls..........Nah, you're right sex is all we talked abot.

I think there have been times when, if most of us are honest, that we have put something on a thread that we regret later and wish in hindsight that we had kept our mouths shut.

hence the reason ALL of us should have the edit ability.

did it...I confess, I made the "penis & strap-on" comment... It was an off the cuff rib at Kona.

I was not offended. I actually thought it was funny.

BTW I think if you find the words "Strap on" or "Penis" disturbing than you are WAY to conservative.

Hmmmm, Now that I read the other thread I am reminded of my own personal double standards. Those remarks would not be allowed on the site that I help manage. However, although they are not something I might say or type, at this site I would not delete them.

Differences are:

The other site actively welcomes young children to read and post. The very youngest have parental supervision, the others come and participate on their own. How else are they going to learn about message boards, internet interactions and the like? We, the moderators, check in several times during the day and the parents know that. We try to encourage people to actually write. That site has established stricter guidelines and I follow them. But that is not to say that those guidelines would be appropriate everywhere, and I do enjoy reading these boards. Remarks like the above don't bother me. Mean, hateful remarks are the sort that do bother me.

Hear, hear. People, please stop using the "this is a family site" excuse to try to wipe out everything that you don't think is "appropriate".

that cracks me up...

Need a loop hole?

It doesn't really matter whether this is a "Familiy site" or not. After all, I don't think that too many children would hang around a skinning forum anyway.
What really matters is (as mentioned above by paxx and Boxxi) is common sense and respect. This forum is generally very good in protecting its own interests and trolls are usually spotted very quickly and get rid off shortly after. I therefore don't think that there is need of a 20 page set of rules which nobody will read anyway.

As for the "strap" comment: it might have not been inapropriate for a site visited mostly by adults, but it did not show respect either.

People, please stop using the "this is a family site" excuse to try to wipe out everything that you don't think is "appropriate".

If you will read back you will most likely find it is more often the Admins, Moderators and Long-Timers who use the "this is a Family Site" phrase when cautionong members of their conduct.

Since it's coming from Admins and Moderators that's what I'm going by until they say different.

So either it IS a Family Site or it is not.

If it is not by all means speak of and name any and all body parts and sex toys. I'm cool with that as long as the Mods don't tell people anymore it's a family site. I personally will just block access for my child.

But i think it is better as they have said to keep the standards geared towards a family site ( at least for the message Board). The NewsGroups are always available for those who would like a good dose of cursing, flaming and sexually explicit (to a degree) discussion. I get a good laugh out of them sometimes. There I know my child isn't reading at all.

So , If we adults already have a place where we can have fun, adult jokes, arguments and the like, why should we be so selfish as to not give our children a part where they don't have to be exposed to our adult conversations, because no matter what some people say here I don't believe that most parents here would appreciate someone sitting down in front of their child and joking about sex toys and the like.

The point is....Wincustomize.com IS a 'family site', and hence the reason for posting this thread....what and why are [or should be] the boundaries by which we, as a community 'draw the line/s' or limitations?

My opinion was/is that neither 'penis' nor 'strap-on' was/is a problem, as both are natural words/phrases....and the latter would only be 'significant' if one were aware of its meaning anyway, in which case it's hardly an issue.

Again I find fault with this perception there is a double standard applying to old vs new people here.  I would not have removed that phrase irrelevant of its author.....THAT is the point.

The frustrating thing is that the Admins/moderators here can search through the UserID database.....using 4-letter words as the search and get hundreds of hits for any and every permutation you can imagine.   Any one of these 'people' could post "Hi." on the board.....and I guarantee all of you would be revulsed by their nicks alone.  It makes you want to exile people 'pre-emptively' [just like Bush]....but that's not quite right, either....

Back to the topic.....since the continuity of comment was a clear indication of non-malicious intent the phrase remained.  Because said phrase was only of 'meaning' to those who already clearly knew its meaning and to those who didn't would remain unknown, it remained.

Perhaps are we guilty of transference of our knowledge/awareness/prejudices upon our children/parental responsibilities?

I think the majority (51% or more) of posters on this subject have agreed that while the reference to penis & strap-on (especially in the same sentence) may be fine in some situations that on a "Family Site" it is either inappropriate or disrespectful to the feelings of those who find it objectionable (especially on a site touted by the Admins/Moderators as "Family".

I disagree Jafo. I do not agree that you can say this is a "Family Site" and have sexually explicit conversations. Yes. No matter how you want to justify it , it was sexually explicit. So please, If you would like I can list all body parts and sexual toys for you to look at and say which ones are family friendly words and which are not. Should we include sex acts ( as the oofending post implied) so that list can be perused also.

Someone did say ole-timers can get away with more than noobs, or at least that was the impression I got.

I would like to see how many people here have had a conversation with family that included refernces to girls not having penises but strap-ons.
Please speak up.

This was a joke, and I thought it was funny.

Yes, this is a family site, but I think we can still have conversations and make jokes. Family site does not mean we have to talk as if we were in a kindergarden either.
Heck, we've had conversations about terrorists, about war, about dead peeople, about bombs, about rapes and mass murderers. Far worse, in my opinion, for a child to read than a vague reference to strap-on, which he is likely to not even understand. Heck, Haloween is coming up, some people my want to get disguised.

Hash, I'd hardly call it a conversation...It was a one liner. I'm sorry you find it Offensive, I happen to think with-in the context of the thread, it was quite funny. I think you brought more attention to "it" than "it" deserves.

Delete the damn thing and be done with it!


Paxx




[Message Edited]

Weather or not the admins admit it, she is right SOMEWHAT on the double stand thing...

I will say again I did not find it offensive. And I was the target of the joke!

SOME PEOPLE ARE WAY TO CONSERVATIVE!

Kona I think Hash is a he

oh..sorry!

hashonboat..again, the reason for this thread is to have a discussion about how we as a community should deal with or expect to deal with subject matter that 'may' be deemed inappropriate by 'some', when perhaps it is not found so by 'others'.

When do we allow [or should we allow] the determination/s of what is 'appropriate' by one sector to impinge on the enjoyment of the site by the many?

It 'may' be significant thatothers other than myself who are vested with the responsibility of maintaining decorum here are of a similar mind to myself...that the exemplified case was inoccuous and perhaps the act of drawing attention to it was more detrimental than letting it ride.

As others have stated it's all a balancing act, between allowing some 'comment' but not ALL comment.

To repeat once more, any perception of a relaxed standard towards long-time members vs new members is purely down to the understanding [generally] that the former, through experience/past history is aware of established limits, whereas so many new members need to be 'watched' as their potential conduct is an unknown quantity.  Even Scott Sproat was 'nice' once....however it was soon apparent that his moral standard was that of pond-scum, culminating in his transgression of Federal Law [be it the US where he is, or Australia where I am].  His record of conduct/comment guarantees his permanent exclusion from this site's community [and I wouldn't be surprised if his probable future incarceration becomes testimony to his unsuitability for society at large].

When confronted with the full gamut of potential diverse conduct where in the whole scheme of things does a comment 'you don't have a penis....a strap-on doesn't count' really deserve to fit?

It's simply a joke....though I must attest to having kept an eye on that dedicated 'joke' thread here....which had the potential to be abused....and yet it still has many entries that are more risque than a simple reference to a 'sex-toy' [your description]...

I'm more worried about my daughter watching MTV than visiting this forum.

Oh China! Go sister, soul sister! Just love that sense-o-humor girlfriend!

I think it is NOBLE of WC to want to keep things as 'family-oriented' as possible but I take that to mean pg-13 but that's just my pov and I shan't wax pedantic on my views and ideals since everyone has them and some of them...well produce sulfuric smelling noxious fumes [he-he].

A prurient mind can turn ANY phrase into something nasty regardless of intent and visa-versa... If a kid knows what it means...well...so...HE KNOWS already! And if a child is so young to be NOT-monitored on a forum such as this that they actually ask a parent AFTER-THE-FACT...then that's just bad parenting skills. A child under 13 SHOULD be monitored when surfing...if it is allowed AT all...and sure you can say there are some pretty crappy parents out there who don't care but does that mean WC has to become big brother? I'd hope not.

An unsupervised young child with a high enough intellect to use a search engine will find far more trash than this place EVER will.

I agree blatant swear-words are immature and SHOULD be deleted. I've used "Frickin' and arse" and "Sheet" or the occasional 'well asterisked' "naughty word" but not often and not enough to label myself a potty-mouth...Uhm I hope.

Like it or not...every kid will eventually know every potty word...every naughty word...and maybe even make up a few of her/his own to boot. You can only preserve 'innocence' for so long.

My daughter knows a LOT more than some teens do and yet she is very innocent and kind and loving and mature all at the same time. I trust her on the internet but I do give her the surprise 'walk-ins' into her computer room. She's 16 but she's still my baby.

I think the admins HATE being "big brother" and would most certainly rather NOT...but what they do is valid for ALL concerned and for the sake of this online community. I think they've done a great job thus far.

/me closes her eyes tight and wishes hard..."I DO so wish all the ideology of 'flaming' someone would FINALLY cease and let the cooler heads of moderators prevail. Imagine if you will...a forum where a shmuck happens to post and nobody responds to his 'troll rants' (which brings his ugly cause to the TOP of the forum heap every time someone DOES repsond) but rather a member/s quietly email/s an admin and the troll is either warned/thread-locked/exiled etc.

Ahhhhhhhh well a goil can wish.

/me gives JAFO a big smile btw!