Censorship Vs free expression

This should be special....


/me thinks Jafo will have his work cut out for him on this one



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I think people should remember that there are youngins that use this site and keep the language clean. If they have to cuss then they should find somewhere else to post to. Just my thoughts.

In 'family' based or oriented environment, whether it is in the net or any other place people should be considerate in how they express themselves, vulgarism it's not always funny.
Respect its fundamental, especially in an internet community where there are thousands of people with different backgrounds and from all sorts of different cultures, what might sound good to some, may sound awful to others.
A good rule to follow would be. Treat others as you'll want others to treat you.

#3 by IPlural - 9/23/2003 2:49:48 PM
Seiphon, this is a family web site and message board

#6 by Admin Jafo - 9/23/2003 3:31:30 PM
Seiphon....you may consider flaming the Gator PR people as 'sport', however here we are far less tolerant, as we need to maintain the decorum of a family site.

I am neither a prude nor a crusader or religious pugilist. I do not throw tantrums at every veiled sexual inuendo or expletive.

With that said, I do find it inappropriate for young 13 & 14 yr olds (of which there are many here) to be exposed to blatant sexual remarks or George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on TV.

I do not find that to be something I would be saying during a "Family" discussion.

#4 by hashonboat - 9/28/2003 7:59:31 PM #3 by IPlural - 9/23/2003 2:49:48 PM Seiphon, this is a family web site and message board #6 by Admin Jafo - 9/23/2003 3:31:30 PM Seiphon....you may consider flaming the Gator PR people as 'sport', however here we are far less tolerant, as we need to maintain the decorum of a family site.

What's say we keep the dart throwing out of this 'discussion'?

What's say we keep the dart throwing out of this 'discussion'?

Yeah, you could put an eye out.

I for one do appreciate a forum not loaded with a bunch of 4, 5, and 6 letter words.


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I don't know what to say on this subject. I feel there is a double standard sometimes the people that have been here a long time get away with some stuff but I have realized after a look back that this is not true. I was not offended by the joke in the other thread. I see no harm in it. And the joke was about me!

What's say we keep the dart throwing out of this 'discussion'?

Merely backing up my words that this is reported to be a family site. No "dart throwing" intended (whatever that means)

i support free speech to a point, there are times when it completely crosses the lines. People often dont think how others will respond to there opinion before voicing it, if people only thought about this before they post, this board will be a much better place. But i doubt that flamers and trolls will learn this... well thats why they are flamers and trolls isnt it

People often dont think how others will respond to there opinion before voicing it, if people only thought about this before they post, this board will be a much better place.

I am very guilty of this. I often type before I think. I am tring to do better.

I just to treat peeps in the forums like I would like to be treated. Although I curse more than I should in real life, it's easy to compose my posts here without using unneeded curses and vulgarity that may not be appreciated by all readers, regardless of age.

However as I said in the other thread, I'm not walking on eggshells here to protect children. Heck most teens I know online curse more than I do. If they're so young that they'll be "harmed" by seeing the word "penis", they are too young to be online without supervision. Someone mentioned 13 and 14 year olds being here.....a 13 year old shouldn't even be here, should they, unless COPPA doesn't apply?

That being said, I think the mods/admins do a good job here of setting the standard for whats "over the line".

listen to China up there... hehe

hmmm good question but doubt anyone of us has a good answer since the fun & joy of msg boards is the "not" knowing much of anything and not controlling too much?

if you guys sweep to fast you interupt ppl being ppl and getting to know each other and if you sweep too late sometimes ppl get their feelings hurt and leave before sticking around long enough to know or grow w/ the crowd.

Jafo it's all just a "judgement guess" on behalf of the moderators...

As a family site I feel that cussing and personal attacks do not belong here. To be fair to everyone, everyone should feel free to express their opinions as long as they do not cross the line by resorting to cussing and personal attacks.

However as I said in the other thread, I'm not walking on eggshells here to protect children. Heck most teens I know online curse more than I do. If they're so young that they'll be "harmed" by seeing the word "penis", they are too young to be online without supervision. Someone mentioned 13 and 14 year olds being here.....a 13 year old shouldn't even be here, should they, unless COPPA doesn't apply?

I agree that children should not be on the internet. If I ever have kids, I would never let them surf the internet without my supervision. I think it is nice that this site and others decide to be as family freindly as possible. If I had kids, I would appreciate having safe sites for them to visit.

Yeah I don't have kids but I have a little neice aged 6. I know she gets on the computer for games, but man I hope she isn't given internet access for a long time. >

You're right though, they still deserve some safe sites to visit, no reason we can't be one of them.

9 by hashonboat - 9/28/2003 8:30:01 PM What's say we keep the dart throwing out of this 'discussion'?Merely backing up my words that this is reported to be a family site. No "dart throwing" intended (whatever that means)

hasonboat- this is a discussion on opinions..your own opinions...and not using others' mutterings to defend yours.(don't have a clue why anyone would even think they have to defend their opinion) You stated yours fine in your first post except for the inference to others. I just don't think, for the purposes of a discussion, that we should interject 'he said, she said' to achieve those ends...thus the dart throwing.

Those who cannot express their feelings without using cusswords need to work on their vocabulary.

I am against censoeship in any form!!! True reading or hearing swear words may/is not be for children but welcome to the real world. I have a four year old and one on the way, I don't have a great deal of parenting skills nor do I have any great reference to learn from but I do have a great belief in myself that I can teach my children right from wrong and provide them with the skills necessary to survive in life. Sheltering children doesn't prepare them for the "real" world IMHO and will just hinder them when they need to go out on their own. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't try to protect children from harm but there is a limit IMO as to what is "harmful". As far as language goes there really isn't much you or anyone can do about it. What do you think they are hearing in school, or on the playground from their friends, seeing and hearing in movies and even in cartoons. No place is safe from everything and if you think it is you are sadly misguided. I would rather have my children hear me slip out a curse word and then tell them it's a "caca" word and know that it's not nice than to hear it from their "friends" then go around cursing out everyone they come across because they never learned right from wrong.

As far as adults go, I say grow up!!! Life isn't the bowl of cherries or peaches you were promised by whomever promised it to you. The world isn't a nice place nor are a majority of the people that live on it. I just can't stand some self righteous SOB trying to tell me I'm wrong because they have a different belief system or a view of the world that exists only in their thick grey matter. Anyway ....

... thats all I have to say about that.

Satans Child, there is an certain atmosphere here that the admins/moderators hold in high regard. And they do a great job to preserve it.

It's a mature atmosphere. Don't hold your tongue with your thoughts, but come correct and responsible with it. If thats too difficult for someone, then this isn't the place for them.

Ya feel me?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules and order I'm just giving my opinion. I'm not gonna start spitting out swear words and curse words. I feel there is a time and place for everything and agree that alot of knuckleheads come here acting like they have no common sense. I say this is a moderated community and it should be dealt with, but maybe those people are just the ones I was refering too that learned what they know from the playground instead of at home.


And I couldn't agree with you more that the admin here do an outstanding job... believe me, it's not a responsibility I would want or accept.

going to lurk in this one....

I dont think the issue is whether kids get access to the interent, its how they have been tought to deal with problems outside of a family enviroment. I my self am i kid, i started out on the internet at 11 back when windows 95 just came out, but that doesnt matter. The point is if kids havnt been taught by there family to take things ina certain way they have no right to be on the internet, and since this is a family site, if parents cant suck it up and teach there kids to act responible they dont deserve to be on the internet as well. I think it takes more responability and self restraint to exist ona family friendly site then it doeson anyother site. Im glad we pride ourselves in that.

Tough question.

Not sure that censorship vs free expression is entirely the issue, though. Since this is a privately owned and operated site, the owner pretty much has final say on the content.

Thing is, the line can be pretty blurry. After all, it's possible to have a discussion with a fairly mature subject and dialogue, yet that does not have any actual profanity or other overt references. In the eyes of some, such a discussion is not suitable for younger folks (I know of some to whom teenagers aren't allowed to engage in such discussion).

Additionally, I know of some teenagers (for example) who are more mature, and better able to cope with such dialogue than are some 'adults'.

Profanity isn't such a clear cut subject, either. With some exceptions, some of what is termed profanity can be, in another context, merely descriptive, or even harmless. On the other hand, it's perfectly possible to completely insult and denigrate someone without a single word of profanity.

I think the best method is to have some basic ground rules where certain behaviour is not tolerated (and that may include specifying certain words or phrases as off limits, which, while not necessarily always bad, rarely lend themselves to mature conversation), and enforcing that evenly across the board.

One of the earlier polls done here determined the average age of the participants here, and we're generally a bit older than those among other fora of this type. Hopefully, that also translates to a bit more overall maturity as well (and by and large, that's what I see here, and what I like about it).

Certainly, there's no pleasing everyone. No matter how strict (or not) the moderators here try to be, there will be someone who is displeased, in one direction or the other, about the content on this board. I personally know adults who would blow a fuse at the earlier creation vs evolution thread we had here a while back (not the thread per se, but the mere thought of discussing the idea), let alone think it was appropriate for children. And it was much more mild than similar discussions I've had on other boards.

Personally, I've had no reason to think that the administrators here have done anything but the best that they can, nor that they've been anything but evenhanded.

I don't think that there's any hard and fast line to be drawn, apart from a few good rules. Mostly, it's going to have to be judged on a case by case basis. There will be some obvious offenders, and there may be some dialogue that should stay, even if it isn't entirely unoffensive. I think the context of the discussion should influence the decision.
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/me wipes away all the erasing.

We try to follow the basic idea... treat people like you want to be treated. Keep your fighting and private moments for messenger. No flaming, even in jest.... there are too many people that use that as a sport, the more they can disrupt a community the better they like it. Since we do encourage young people to join, we take it to be our responsibility to maintain a safe environment for them. No glorification of drinking, no drugs, no porn. A good, spirited debate is fine, all the better if people stop and take the time to be eloquent. Cheap jokes, cheap humor, cheap shots are easy to come by but they are just as easily forgotten. Innuendo, skeletonized words that are obviously disallowed language are treated as that which they allude to. Racism, sexism, religious slurs and hate remarks aimed at people of difference are not allowed.

It is hard to be in the position of censor and I have lost some sleep because of it. But at the end of the day, my guideline is ... Does it hurt anyone, or incite behavior that will hurt someone. Is it fair? I might not like something, but it is not up to me to decide what other people might like (so many times I am as much the censored as the censoree). Is it something I would be comfortable sharing with a 10-year-old or with a 90-year-old grandmother? Does it expose the writer, or another identifiable person to harm or ridicule.


.... and when I take action, or when I have doubts, I copy the thing and pass it up to the manager.