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Snipers in DC

Snipers in DC

I live 45 minutes outside of DC. This sniper stuff really ticks me off. I've never seen anything like this. Anyone think it's al-Qaida? I don't know, but I hope they catch the SOB soon!
63,590 views 188 replies
Reply #152 Top
I have to admit it would seem that this guy did it. Everything is matching up. (Unless somebody really screwed up the ballistics). I can't fatham why he would do it. He does not seem crazy at all, he looks like a jerk though. Even the 17 year old looks ok. Even in the bad new story photo he does not look like the other mass murderers.

It just seems really strange to me. To many things do not add up. You take a kid to shot people? I want to hear the words from his mouth. I need him to say something.

And your right wombat_1, it is innocent until proven guilty. I want to know what is going on with this whole story. It doesn't make sense.

I get the money part though... they needed to get away, and live high off the money.
Reply #155 Top
wombat, I think that the ballistics and his own admission proves his guilt.

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Reply #156 Top
They don't prove his guilt , until it's been properly sorted in court.
BTAIM, if we were innocent until proven guilty, then you would never feel a policeman's handcuffs on your wrist until after you had been tried and convicted by a court. And we all know that's not true.
Reply #158 Top
I think that addmission stuff doesn't mean he is guilty. It just means he said he is. Even now the Central Park Joger case where I believe 4 or 5 young boys said they were guilty... but now it looks like somebody else did it.

So it is still innocent until proven guilty. I personally think he looks very guilty indeed, but I am not a jury. It would seem that they caught him. No shootings since. Everything seems to be ok now.

This still seems so strange to me. Why did he do it? And take a young child along for the ride? Why keep killing? Then why give the police the info to catch you?

It would seem they have thier man. And if they have the evidence, the jury will convict.
Reply #159 Top
Joetheblow....I'm sorry, but that's bull! Juriies are made up of people like you and me...so you ARE the jury. The american justice system is flawed to say the least. When a killer(s) can be aquited on a technicality (even though all evidence points to their guilt...just watch Law and Order sometime) something is not right. If he said he did it, then I believe he did (even without taking into account the ballistics evidence, the setup in the car for firing from the trunk, etc...).

The central park jogger case is a different matter altogether. The 5 'boys' gave confessions under extreme duress....which they later recanted. Although I agree a jury trial is a necessity, I think that in this case it is a waste of taxpayer money. The evidence and confession should speak for itself and the sick bastard should be executed in public. I dare say that your attitude would be different if the victims had been your loved ones (heaven forbid).



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Reply #160 Top
Law and Order???
Why not the Simpsons or maybe Dallas??
A bloody TV series (good or not) is fine basis for another 'expert opinion' of the Legal System!
If the system is flawed this would be one good example.
JHCoaC!!!!!

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Reply #161 Top
Law and Order, for the most part is based on real cases. My sister in law is a district court judge, so I think I have insight (which you obviuosly lack) into the american legal system. I hear of cases everyday that get dismissed based on technicalities (such as lawyers neglecting to complete paperwork). Your Simpsons/Dallas is as insulting as you are...so STFUYFP!!!!

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Reply #162 Top
those "technicalities" are there for a reason. you have to do it right. that is what's being on the good side is all about. if they did it right maybe those boys wouldn't have to had to grow up in prison. Some people get let go because of "technicalities" and others don't. Some people die because of those technicalities and others do not. It feels so wrong when someone gets off (like a drug dealer" because someone beat the crap out of him during integrigation (which he desirved"). So, along with other illegal evidence, he was let go. Killed 2 people later on, for which he went to prison.


Anyway, the bottom line is that the law and rules are there for a reason. If he gets off because of a technicality, it will be because someone desided to do something very unlawfull and possibly criminal to do it. 2 wrongs do not make a right. It looks good in the movies though, Did you see how Dirty Harry got that bad guy (and distroyed half of Chicago in th process)???? Sweat!!!

I think this guy who appartenly is the killer better have a real good alliby.


Hey and in LA Law didn't they have shows with people who got convicted who didn't do anything wrong??? But the officer and prosicution went all around the rules to convict him???? Or was that The Practice??

I would really love to be on the jury of this court trile. Here the evidence presented. Make sure he is not being railroaded by "the Man" and pass the verdict. From what I here and read so far, he is the one but everyone deserves the right to innocent to proven giulty (even scum). That insures all of our rights so that innocent people do not get hurt. So to make sure those innocent people do not get caught up in an over zealuos prosicuter or investigator.

This is why people get off on technicalities.
Reply #163 Top
Here is a story from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/26/national/nationalspecial/26GUN.html

John Allen Muhammad, the man arrested in the suburban Washington sniper case, owned at least two Bushmaster XM15 rifles in the last two years: the one linked to the shootings and another one that he sold at a gun shop in Tacoma, Wash., according to court documents and an executive of Bushmaster Firearms.


It is not yet known where or how Mr. Muhammad bought the Bushmaster rifle that the authorities say was used in the killings. It was the other gun that led to his being charged with illegal gun possession on Thursday in Federal District Court in Baltimore.

Mr. Muhammad resold that gun at Welcher's Gun Shop in Tacoma on May 23, 2000, according both to the warrant for his arrest and to John Welcher, the store owner. Under federal law, Mr. Muhammad was barred from buying or possessing a firearm because his second wife had taken out a domestic-violence restraining order against him two months earlier, in March 2000.


It took two years before the restraining order was entered in the F.B.I.'s main database, the National Crime Information Center, in May 2002, a bureau official said.


But that was still before he obtained the rifle used in the sniper attacks in June, the official said, noting that the Bushfield Company's records showed that the gun was not shipped until June.


Mr. Muhammad could have acquired that rifle any number of ways, the official said — perhaps through a corrupt gun dealer who provided false information to the F.B.I. when a background check was performed, from a private seller or at a gun show, where no background check is required.


Mr. Muhammad's ability to buy the second Bushmaster rifle after the restraining order had been entered into the F.B.I.'s computer system underscores weaknesses in the nation's gun laws, advocates of gun control say.


"The system failed here," said Matthew Bennett, a spokesman for Americans for Gun Safety in Washington.


"Either he slipped through the cracks of the background check system, because his restraining order wasn't in the system, or he evaded a background check by buying his gun at a gun show or from a private seller," Mr. Bennett said.


.........

The arrest warrant suggests that Mr. Muhammad may have also had a third rifle that looked like the others. A friend of Mr. Muhammad in Tacoma, Robert Edward Holmes, told the firearms bureau on Tuesday that when Mr. Muhammad and "an associate" visited his home six months ago, they displayed an AR-15 assault rifle. The AR-15 is the civilian version of the military's M-16, and the Bushmaster rifles are copies of it.

That date would have been before Mr. Muhammad could have bought the Bushmaster rifle used in the sniper killings.

As for why it took so long to enter the restraining order into the F.B.I. computer, law enforcement officials said it was not unusual for the process to take months or longer.

A Justice Department study last January estimated that there were two million restraining orders around the nation, but that only 590,000 had been entered in the system.

A bill that would give the states $375 million a year for the next three years to catch up on the backlog passed the House of Representatives but has been stalled in the Senate by opposition from Republicans.

In recent years bills to close the so-called gun show loophole, in which a background check is not required when a gun is bought at a gun show, have faced strong opposition from the National Rifle Association. None have passed.





Questions??? Comments????
Reply #164 Top
With a name like 'Muhammad' (no disrespect for anyone named Muhammad BTW) he's behind the 8 ball for a start.
No point in restarting the 'Gun Debate' all over except to suggest that owning a fire-arm should be regarded as a privelige rather than a 'God-given' right, and as such, earned.
$375 M for the next three years to 'catch up' deserves scrutiny.


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Reply #165 Top
Joe....time to 'get it right'...

interrogation
deserved
decided
unlawful
destroyed
the
Sweet
apparently
alibi
prosecution
trial
Hear
hear
until
guilty
ensures
zealous
prosecuter... Spell checker
Reply #166 Top
Grrr...'prosecutor'...so many errors got the better of me...
Reply #168 Top
wombat, Muhammad isn't his birth name. His real name is John Allen Williams, an American, but he changed his name last year when he got converted to Islam. Somewhat like Muhammad Ali.

BTW, they arrested a third person, Nathaniel Osbourne, also suspected of being involved.

On the topic of punishment...
I think they should be skinned alive, then their nails pulled one by one, they eyes pulled out and hot oil poured down their throat.

(BTW, I hope you got he irony in there. Because they were cruel and inhuman, it doesn't mean we must be as well. If we were, it would mean they were in their right in the first place.)
Reply #169 Top
goodmorphing: i'm good, thanks. I defeated the urge to go back to Norrath . Morrowind is the methadone for my Everquest addiction, lol.

My only problem with the whole sniper thing is how the damned news channel pundits refuse to shut up about it now. The made fun of each other for two days for speculating, and now they are speculating again. I was trying to find out information about the horrible situation in Russia last night and all I could get on all three news networks were pundits debating jurisdiction, and the sniper's 'traumatic legacy', whatever that is...

No matter what happens, they are gonna get what they deserve. It's a non-issue, it will be carried out by *someone*, even if it is in the prison shower with a broomhandle... A bruised populace enforces their own interpretation of Karma.

All I am concerned with is the motive. It would suck if he had a supporting group of like-minded individuals.
Reply #170 Top
paxx, I noted that and if anything it makes for even more of a bias against the person, a 'convert' to any cause (if indeed this is the case) is perceived as being a fanatic.
And of course, if the well used 'diminished responibilty' plea is entered then who knows where the case goes?
There must be some middle ground between knowing the results of ones actions and being a nut case .... guess we wait and see.

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Reply #172 Top
There seems to be a strong movement now in psychiatry that a person can have a certifiable mental illness, and still know the difference between right and wrong. ( Did he plan? hide and use subterfuge? Formulate a careful escape plan? etc., etc.).
Reply #173 Top
You could argue any form of violent act is due to mental illness. Using violence of any kind cannot be considered normal behaviour.

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Reply #174 Top
heh...the human race has been mentaly ill for the past 10 million years, or so, apparently...
Reply #175 Top
Fuzzy, it's all a matter of perception.
Violence can be a perfectly 'normal' reflex act of self-preservation through to the 'abnormal' psycotic who enjoys inflicting pain or the sociopath (correct me Jafo) who just gets off on chaos, terror and pain.....

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