Bushman Bushman

Protest

▼

Protest

from WinCustomize Forums
I've been a subscriber to WC since damn near the beginning (I've only been skinning for about 2.5 years) but after learning about yesterdays tragic loss of 3 skinners from this site and the way things were handled I've decided to not re-new my WC subscribtion any more and I will no longer support WC by adding any more skins. I am apalled at how Brad and others treated the skinners because of their beliefs. Now before anybody tries to make more of this than what I am saying,let me say it so it is very clear. I am not threating anybody with anything, I am just stating my intentions and reasons. I'm not saying if you don't do this I'll do that. I'm not making any requests, no demands, favors, nothing, at this point there is nothing that will change things. Brads actions/words and the actions/words of all those who followed his lead, plus I finally understand the rankings (Master, Journeyman et.), (here I thought they were given because of the work an indivdual did, now I understand that's only a small part of it),are my reasons.

Now if someone feels the need to bash me for my decision, save it, it just brings out the child in ya. I'm not asking to have my skins removed unless someone feels the need to do that, I can't stop you. I just ren-newed my subscribtion in Jan for the next 2 years so I expect all privileges my WC subscribtion allows, so don't go messing with me in that area or it will get legal (no threat, just a fact).

I didn't write this to argue with anybody about who is right or wrong. All I'm doing is expressing my decisions and why. This place has changed some for the good, some for the bad and unfortunately recently there's been more bad. This is a great website and it's helped many people to become great artists and it has been a pioneer in skinning so there's still hope that things will change around but there's a lot of work to be done.

36,091 views 101 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I just ren-newed my subscription in Jan for the next 2 years so I expect all privileges my WC subscription allows, so don't go messing with me in that area or it will get legal (no threat, just a fact).


I suppose this could be viewed as a threat which could have been expressed or handled differently. But I suspect this may be handled with a refund because if how is was stated.

What a tangled web we weave.

If there is one thing I've learned over the years here it is this...speak your mind...but choose your words very carefully.
Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top
expect all privileges my WC subscribtion allows, so don't go messing with me in that area or it will get legal (no threat, just a fact).


I missed construed this previously and for that you have my profound apologies. Don't know why I even thought this was directed towards the community itself.

Can someone please explain to me exactly what Brad or Boopish did that is so wrong? They both brought up valid concerns & others seemed to be the ones who ran in an asinine way with it.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Basically Sir Smiley...the whole thing should have been handled via email. Making something like this public just brings out the ugly in everyone.
Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Bebi: This whole mess is turning into such a joke, honestly.

And by the way, the right to free speech and the first amendment can't exactly be enforced here, it's a privately owned site and as you've noticed, Brad can choose how and when to enforce it at his own discretion.

At any rate, hasta la vista.


Bebi: Should be interesting to see the big man's response.


And I'm sure you will check the forum every 5 minutes to see if and when Brad shows up - your thriving on all of this mayhem while some of us cringe at the thought of even looking at the forum anymore.

None of this is a joke what so ever. Its causing a strain on a lot of people that are divided on this issue.

Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Exactly, that's my point. Everyone seems to be making such a huge deal out of something that would have much better have been dealt with through email, as WebGizmos just pointed out. If it had been dealt with through email, none of this mess would likely have happened and we all wouldn't be here going at each other's throats over who was right, who was wrong, who has the right to say whose beliefs should take precedence over other's, and so on.

Someone just mentioned in the original thread: "What you want is absolutely fair, as long as we follow YOUR beliefs." That pretty much sums it up for me. Can only please some of the people some of the time. There will always be someone who is offended by something. It's when threats start getting made "do as I say and what I want or I'll do this and that" is when it gets stupidly ridiculous.
Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I say we all break out our throbbers and have at it!




Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The difference is that we want a site where people feel free to discuss things they disagree with.

I do not, for instance, say "If you don't agree with me, I'll kick you off the site".  I say, disagree with me or anyone else all you want, just be civil about it.

Where I draw the line is when someone says they're leaving, removes their stuff but lingers around to rally support to them of those who were on the fence but will take the offended person's side in order to placate them.

Remember, in the offensive screenshot thread, there was a debate going on and then when people removed their work, people came on and said "It's not worth losing 'valuable' members of the site so just do what they want." That's not the kind of environment we want to have.

Do you see the difference? It's a very important distinction. We aren't kicking anyone off. All we have done is made sure those who say they're leaving and taking their stuff with them actually do. We want people to not make idle threats in order to "get their way". 

Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I say, disagree with me or anyone else all you want, just be civil about it.


that's the better idea i have eared since two days.

Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I never saw the thread in question so I really don't know what it was or what was seen.
To lose talent...anyone's talent...is a great loss to the community as a whole. I'd rather see what some have said...the "WC Family". Family,when you get right down to it, is everything to most people. I joined because I wish to be a part of something spectacular and this site, these people, artists all, are just that...bar none. Please
don't allow this to divide you. It would be a damn shame to see.
Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top

To lose talent...anyone's talent...is a great loss to the community as a whole.

Guys/gals, that only applies when the 'talent' mentioned is not/has not voiced intent to depart, or threats to do so.

IF a person truly considers Wincustomize 'HOME', or a valued/wanted community place-to-be then the LAST thing they would be likely to do is consider leaving/unsubscribing/lapsing/removing works/whatever.

Those who DO value the WC skinning community will stay, no matter what happens or to whom it does.

"'tragic' loss of 3 skinners" is somewhat emotive.  Willingness to leave [whatever the reason] shows a true indication of the degree of community-minded commitment, or lack there-of.

'tragic' would be better replaced by 'avoidable' - as all that was/is needed is an understanding that pressuring others, old or new to conform to a specific way/opinion through threat and/or insult is not tolerated.

Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well said, Jafo.

What gets me, is how these people had such a big head, that they thought "removing thier skins" could be used as "leverage" to get thier way.
Sorry, to me if you want to play that card, it's time for you to leave anyways.
Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top
correct me if i'm wrong but i don't believe anyone was "forced to leave", "told to leave",  or "kicked out". i think they left on their own.
Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I think we need a tutorial on using the tools, etc. in the forums to prevent the issues we have seen recently (reporting rips, requesting removal of questioned posts, and other issues).

Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well I finally got the email part working and I email Brad personally and now it's up to him.
It's amazing how only one person actually understood my message w/o adding things to it.

Guys/gals, that only applies when the 'talent' mentioned is not/has not voiced intent to depart, or threats to do so.

IF a person truly considers Wincustomize 'HOME', or a valued/wanted community place-to-be then the LAST thing they would be likely to do is consider leaving/unsubscribing/lapsing/removing works/whatever.

Those who DO value the WC skinning community will stay, no matter what happens or to whom it does.

"'tragic' loss of 3 skinners" is somewhat emotive. Willingness to leave [whatever the reason] shows a true indication of the degree of community-minded commitment, or lack there-of.

'tragic' would be better replaced by 'avoidable' - as all that was/is needed is an understanding that pressuring others, old or new to conform to a specific way/opinion through threat and/or insult is not tolerated.


This is just plain wrong Jafo, I will not sit back and let anybody do what they want here or any place else for that matter. Maybe that's how you do things but not me.

For others, I have talked about this before but it fell on deaf ears. This is not just a business you're dealing with real live human beings here, not just a screen with a pic or writting on it. Web Gizmo was right, this whole thing should have been handled via email on all sides but not everything works right on this site yet. It took me two days to get mine to work so I could email Brad myself. When the owner of a site takes to writting a thread to bash others for their beliefs instead of emailing the person(s) directly as is warranted, something's wrong. Now that I've been able to email Brad this thread is done for me.
Remember folks this is a community where people should have the right to object to things w/o being bashed for it.

Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What gets me, is how these people had such a big head, that they thought "removing thier skins" could be used as "leverage" to get thier way.
Sorry, to me if you want to play that card, it's time for you to leave anyways.


What "people" are you talking about. At no time in the original thread did Boopish mention removing her skins, she did it quietly and without any threats whatsoever. Bushman has not mentioned anything about removing his skins and has made no threats.

Why do some of you "people" continue to twist the facts around.
Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I was commenting to what Jafo said.
"People" doesn't automatically translate into (Boopish or Bushman). I was referring to the "elitist people" from when Wincustomize opened (way, way back in the day) up to now.

Please read the whole thread before putting words in people's mouths....
Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Web Gizmo was right, this whole thing should have been handled via email on all sides

Once complaint comments are posted on an upload the issue is unfortunately already public.  The fault was with the complainant/s.

That leaves two options...delete the comment [accusations of censorship and stifling opinion] and go to email....or respond publicly, avoiding censure but being left with potential for flaming.

The latter occurred through escalation of disdain directed towards the uploader, [rather than an actual mature debate about the validity of a particular image being uploaded].

It's this public pressure-tactic used by some to impose THEIR values upon other members that needed to stop....

 

Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Drama drama drama. Call the cable company and order the Soap channel. That should fill the daily quota without posting more here.
Reply #45 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I was commenting to what Jafo said.
"People" doesn't automatically translate into (Boopish or Bushman). I was referring to the "elitist people" from when Wincustomize opened (way, way back in the day) up to now.

Please read the whole thread before putting words in people's mouths....


Maybe you should quote to what you're replying to so as to avoid any misunderstanding.
As to putting words in your mouth, there's not much room while your foots in it.
Reply #46 from WinCustomize Forums Top
buzzh58 ask:
What "people" are you talking about. At no time in the original thread did Boopish mention removing her skins, she did it quietly and without any threats whatsoever. Bushman has not mentioned anything about removing his skins and has made no threats.

Why do some of you "people" continue to twist the facts around.


the answer:

ClWoods Said in the first post:
The same goes here. I would really like assistance in getting all my work removed. This site is suppose to be for everyone and if one person is offended it should be respected and removed. I will not battle with desensitized people who think just because this is an adult site anyone can post any perversion they want and call it okay. I realize I am not the most popular person here, but there are some who have enjoyed my work. You will still be able to find it and Troys work at my site clwoods Gallery WWW Link and at Skinnalicious
WWW Link So long.

Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top




Maybe you should quote to what you're replying to so as to avoid any misunderstanding.
As to putting words in your mouth, there's not much room while your foots in it.


Lets remember that personal attacks are not to be used, OK.


Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Drama drama drama. Call the cable company and order the Soap channel. That should fill the daily quota without posting more here.


According to Frogboy he has stated on another thread that there will be no more locking threads because a moderator was tired of it all....he has encouraged people to have free speech and state their opinions - which is what I believe we are doing. So if you feel this is nothing but " Drama Drama Drama " Why did you bother to say anything at all?
Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top
This should be televised.. Im calling my cable company.
Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top
As to putting words in your mouth, there's not much room while your foots in it.


Wow, I haven't laughed out load in a long time. He got me. Did you see it?

If you're ever in the U.S. give me a buzz. I know a great spot were we can go hunting.....