Bushman Bushman

Protest

▼

Protest

from WinCustomize Forums
I've been a subscriber to WC since damn near the beginning (I've only been skinning for about 2.5 years) but after learning about yesterdays tragic loss of 3 skinners from this site and the way things were handled I've decided to not re-new my WC subscribtion any more and I will no longer support WC by adding any more skins. I am apalled at how Brad and others treated the skinners because of their beliefs. Now before anybody tries to make more of this than what I am saying,let me say it so it is very clear. I am not threating anybody with anything, I am just stating my intentions and reasons. I'm not saying if you don't do this I'll do that. I'm not making any requests, no demands, favors, nothing, at this point there is nothing that will change things. Brads actions/words and the actions/words of all those who followed his lead, plus I finally understand the rankings (Master, Journeyman et.), (here I thought they were given because of the work an indivdual did, now I understand that's only a small part of it),are my reasons.

Now if someone feels the need to bash me for my decision, save it, it just brings out the child in ya. I'm not asking to have my skins removed unless someone feels the need to do that, I can't stop you. I just ren-newed my subscribtion in Jan for the next 2 years so I expect all privileges my WC subscribtion allows, so don't go messing with me in that area or it will get legal (no threat, just a fact).

I didn't write this to argue with anybody about who is right or wrong. All I'm doing is expressing my decisions and why. This place has changed some for the good, some for the bad and unfortunately recently there's been more bad. This is a great website and it's helped many people to become great artists and it has been a pioneer in skinning so there's still hope that things will change around but there's a lot of work to be done.

36,105 views 101 replies
Reply #77 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So I guess this is the thick of it huh! Taking a legimate complaint and turning it into a joke... So much for democra(c)y.


Democracy Definition

By number five in the definition I guess you're somewhat right and maybe many others share your opinion but, choose not to say or do anything...that seems more like a democracy. Legitimate complaint is right. But, you chose a protest and protests rarely are what they were originally intended to be.


Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #78 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So much for democray


We are indeed a democrayic bunch aren't we!

In a nutshell, your rant was dismissed as foolish nonsense.
It was nothing more than a childish rant no matter how you disguise it.

I think the humor is much more productive.

Now, speaking of animals, wasn't I just reading somewhere about Hen Wetting?
Reply #79 from WinCustomize Forums Top

You're right it is very clear to me now. So now I am asking to have anything related to me in this site to be removed/deleted what ever needs to be done and you can also refund me my subscribtion to this site minus any time I may have used ASAP.
FBOMB ALL OF YOU.

//Edited - modified explitive.

Reply #80 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't expect you to see this bushman.  But it appears you are more part of the problem than part of the solution.  It's too bad that we tried to have a dialog with you (in addition to the humor) and you refused.

At leaset we know what you are made of.
Reply #81 from WinCustomize Forums Top
& how do you get the hind legs of a Big Red into the boots???


Well you don't....er, well you could, but it'd hop right out agin.

Was in NZ a few years back....saw several sheep on the Nth Island wearing wellington boots (all four legs)....farmers there reckoned it made 'em easier ta catch.

So I guess this is the thick of it hugh! Taking a legimate complaint and turning it into a joke. You guys, starkers, Jafo. Po' Smedley and the rest of you on this page think this is a joke,


Bushman....sorry if you felt I was belittling your concerns cos that was not my intent. The thread had already taken a humorous turn, and being that things had gotten mighty unpleasant around here, I felt more comfortable subscribing to that than having an opinion.

Reply #82 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Bushman, I for one am said to see your behavior and to see you go. There are things/behaviors on this site that I don't agree with but, that is part of what the democracratic process is. The majority rules otherwise if one or a few people have their way it is a dictatorship or totalitarian type of place that I don't wish to belong to.

Best wishes to you in your future endeavors.
Reply #83 from WinCustomize Forums Top
FBOMB ALL OF YOU.


one of my favorite sayings is.. "be careful what you ask for you just might get it"

Surely you saw this coming when you protested?
Reply #84 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I can understand your being upset that we got off topic. But why didn't you respond, to my post at least since I can't speak for others, when it was 'on' topic?

I'm sorry if you are offended or feel that I minimized your thread to nothing more than jokes. That was not my intent and I think my first post says that. I still consider you a friend and respect your talent and experience.

I'm gonna keep any other personal feelings to myself. If you want to talk, email me, my friend. In the meantime, I have said what I had to say in my first post and meant it, so I will not post in this thread anymore until I hear from you.

Again, I'm sorry.
Reply #85 from WinCustomize Forums Top

If you want your library removed from WinCustomize, you can manage this by browsing your gallery on your personal page and selecting "Delete" from the list of options available.  There is no easier method on the backend for us to do this, so we leave it up to the users.

Additionally, we do not remove personal pages or accounts.  Accounts can be exiled, preventing further use, but we do not erase them from our system.  Same goes for articles written, comments made etc.  We can not erase all traces of your existence from this site.

Reply #86 from WinCustomize Forums Top
and the rest of you on this page think this is a joke


Apologies Bushman.......I did read and digest your comments......just didn’t think there was anything more to be said. Many serious posts end up with a lighter side which you can look at as somewhat of a negative being turned into a bit of a positive........and....well......an aussie never passes up the chance to have a bit of fun with a kiwi (and visa versa).

While I respect your regrettable decision to remove/not add your works as a way of making a statement that works for you, what works for me is trying to be constructive, hopefully learn from the situation & move forward.......and the best healer is humour.......but, that humour was never intended to trivialise the whole matter, or your post.

I realise your problem here is with Brad’s handling of the situation and I respect that.......but look at it this way.......If I left a job every time my boss did something I disagreed with.......I’d be unemployable.....and yes, I know, this is a place I come to by choice.....not a job.......but if I left every forum/site because some people said/did things I didn’t agree with, I’d just be a butterfly flitting from one site to the next. When you find a place you like and you put down roots, it’s worth defending and hopefully improving.

If you won’t change your mind and stay, I wish you all the best and again apologise for any offence caused.
Reply #87 from WinCustomize Forums Top
well said.
Reply #88 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm with you Bushman.

But i'd never delete anything from my page. I'll just keep making better things and skins.
Reply #89 from WinCustomize Forums Top

From a purely practical standpoint, the clout someone has in a community (any community) typically comes from what they contribute to it.

I've mentioned this in the past but it is worth repeating - when a skinner removes their stuff or leaves or whatever they essentially diminish their own potency in that community.

This is particularly true in on-line communities because of their transient nature. In the 6 years this site has been up, countless people have said "I'm taking my stuff down" in a show of protest. But it doesn't accomplish anything because people quickly forget what that person's contributions were once they are gone.

I had thought that people would realize this more after the Jark incident happened on deviantART.  In that case, the site removed the founder of the site -- literally fired him. For a couple of months, there was some angst over it. But now, a year or so later, it's as if it never happened.

The best way to achieve change are through positive deeds. If someone feels that I or someone else on staff at the site did something wrong then speak up on it.  If others agree with you, they too will speak up. And through that, change occurs because, assuming the people who run the site aren't monsters, they want to make the user community happy.

Reply #90 from WinCustomize Forums Top
And through that, change occurs because, assuming the people who run the site aren't monsters, they want to make the user community happy.


Reply #92 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well if your all finished i'll end with



And so concludes another series in days of our lives
Reply #93 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Noone is irreplaceable. My boss reminds me of this all the time.


   your good for 5 laughs a day at least.


Im hoping to increase my "community potency" enough to warrant a WIP THREAD  
Reply #94 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I had thought that people would realize this more after the Jark incident happened on deviantART. In that case, the site removed the founder of the site -- literally fired him. For a couple of months, there was some angst over it. But now, a year or so later, it's as if it never happened.

I doubt I'll ever forget.  It's a sober reminder that life isn't always fair, on several different levels....

Reply #95 from WinCustomize Forums Top

when a skinner removes their stuff or leaves or whatever they essentially diminish their own potency in that community.

The best way to achieve change are through positive deeds.

through that, change occurs because, assuming the people who run the site aren't monsters, they want to make the user community happy.



Ok Igor   ,
Here's just an idea.
You made your policy of banishment (reduction to vistor status) AFTER the fact, with no advanced warning of the consequences going forward.
Wouldn't it be less monstrous and a positive deed to give the 3 a final second chance?
Even if they don't put their work back up, at least you have given them the option to do that should they choose. The policy going forward (from the time you announced it)is carved in stone. I agree with the policy and it may help future incidents.

Reply #96 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Wouldn't it be less monstrous and a positive deed to give the 3 a final second chance?


waits patiently for hell to freeze over*   
Reply #97 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Frogboy: The best way to achieve change are through positive deeds. If someone feels that I or someone else on staff at the site did something wrong then speak up on it. If others agree with you, they too will speak up. And through that, change occurs because, assuming the people who run the site aren't monsters, they want to make the user community happy.


All I ask is for clear rules - rules for everyone , not just for that day.



You made your policy of banishment (reduction to vistor status) AFTER the fact, with no advanced warning of the consequences going forward.


That is the one thing that bothered me. You said in your post when you first returned you wanted a kinder forum where people will be helped and not dismissed if they are a bit abrupt or rude....had you said " Anyone that says Im taking my skins because Im mad or I don't like the ratings or Im protesting...they will be banished.

Then the punishment would have been cut and dry. There would be no recourse.

I have no problem with rules as long as I know ahead of time what they are..
Reply #98 from WinCustomize Forums Top
.SydneySiders: an aussie never passes up the chance to have a bit of fun with a kiwi (and visa versa).


PS: BTW, your not bad for an aussie girl

Reply #99 from WinCustomize Forums Top

You made your policy of banishment (reduction to vistor status) AFTER the fact, with no advanced warning of the consequences going forward.
Wouldn't it be less monstrous and a positive deed to give the 3 a final second chance?
Even if they don't put their work back up, at least you have given them the option to do that should they choose. The policy going forward (from the time you announced it)is carved in stone. I agree with the policy and it may help future incidents.

Let's be real here:

#1 CL Woods personally attacked a new member of the site because she decided on her own that his screeenshot was unacceptable.  The words "pedophile" were thrown around because she felt a screenshot of a desktop who had a wallpaper of a girl in a swimsuit who looked sexy and too young (in her opinion) warranted that.

That is a clear violation of WC rules.  Calling people perverts and pedophiles and what not are pretty serious. It's actually libelous.

#2 The people who were put to visitor were people who said they were leaving. They weren't exiled. They were put to visitor so that they could no longer post anymore.  I simply made sure they made good on their threat. 

Because I don't think they had any intention of leaving. I believe they were playing the WC game of "Do as I command you to do" in which the player removes their work, threatens to leave, and fans then say things like "This isn't worth losing a 'valuable' member of the site, just do what she wants" and then everyone hugs and the work is restored. 

If CL Woods didn't have a deviantART account, I might have taken her more seriously. But she does and to me, that meant her threat wasn't serious. She simply believed she should have her way here.

#3 If someone wants to contact Zoomba and make their case that they will not engage in the above 2 types of behavior, we are prepared to listen to it. 

But regardless, the days of people bullying other people are over around here.  I've seen it in the forums for a long time. And I know another thing - I've received literally dozens of emails from long-time users who had become lurkers who absolutely agreed with what I did and said they had stopped participating because the forums had become "oppressive" and "cliquey".  Even now, the forums are starting to get some life back to them. But it will be a long road.

Having read things like Cl wood's journal on deviantART, I am confident that we did the right thing. 

I wouldn't think this was necessary to point things out but you will note that not a single person here has accused those who disagree with me a "zombie" or other degrading name.

We support your right to have your own opinions and to disagree and we support other people having the right to disagree with you in return. We don't dehumanize people because of their opinions.  People who are in their "Best behavior" mode that still manage to accuse those that don't agree with them as being "unthinking zombies" are not the kind of people we want being active in our forums.

I think the worst that was said of those who were forced to not return was that they were "bullies" which, if someone else can provide a better term for someone who uses intimidation and insults and coercion in order to achieve their objective then I'm open to it. 

But I'm pretty comfortable being on the side that thinks people have the right to have their opinion and that those who disagree with me do so out of principle and have their own legitimate world view (as opposed to dismissing them as mindless zombies incapable).

Reply #100 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've received literally dozens of emails from long-time users who had become lurkers who absolutely agreed with what I did and said they had stopped participating because the forums had become "oppressive" and "cliquey


The forums have been that way for years. The only thing that has changed are the cliques.

I just had to throw my 1.5 cents into this. You've made your point. I agree with most of what you said with the exception of a couple little bits. They aren't worth getting into though. So... carry on with the experiments Dr. Frogenstein