Why is the slave pit so much stronger than the power matrix when it's basically the same thing.

I have seen a few posts on the power matrix.

I have noticed in my games that the Yor are always the weakest race. If i think of it i will put them up a level or two above others.

Its rather odd since most sci fi depicts synthetic races as very powerful.... look at the Borg in startrek or the replicants in Stargate.

Ok arguably the synthetics are a bit weak in Starwars tho..... hopeless shots and fall apart at the drop of a hat! lol

Edit: Oh yea, i nearly forgot the silons of battlestar galactica.... pretty tame like Yor in the original series, but in the new series, that's a different story!

Well the reason I pick on the power matrix it is really the Yor equalizer to the power plants and hives. I just don't understand this making things weaker for no reason. I like the fact I have to make Yor. no gripes there even though it gives everyone else free production next to the Yor. They pretty well fixed this by making the Yor productive; except that now makes the Yor one ability. No need to make them weaker after this. Can't really fix this without giving an unfair amount of abilities. Up to this point, no complaints. We just have to accept a handicap for realism.

Two was even more realistic of a tech tree. What i was talking was about replacing, not leaving a void in it's place. My bad, this complaint would never of manifested if I had figured out the power of charging stalks. This would have been a problem in the late game on multiplayer in the third.

Looking back we could have fixed the problem of almost a non existent economy, and no governments with techs that either gave us free production, or let us build the buildings that raised our productions. The reason this is not a bad idea is because the money is devided into research, social, and military manufacturing. This still would give the others an advantage if balanced. This is why I could use the money to rush buy, and trade. Production is fair, but limited as a substitute for money. This might take some time to balance, but in the end it would have been fair.

Second, take away their diplomacy was fine if they would have added a extortion branch. Instead they gave it to the Korath who didn't need it with their diplomacy, and all. Yes I suggested a branch not just a tech.

Now let's keep it fair with their matrix vs. power plant.

Lets first get the facts correct, the actual stats of the slave pit:

+ it is a research and a manufacturing improvement
+ 25% to Research/Manufacturing/Food (not growth!) (50% and 75% in its upgraded forms)
+ adjacency bonus taken: +5% to research, manufacturing and food.
+ adjacency given: +2 to research, manufacturing and wealth
+ 1 moral

In my opinion, this is the best improvement in the game. This is the Drengin power plant and coordination center replacement.

Hives are something else. The Thalans still have power plants besides the hives. The purpose of the Hives (and Gaia Vortex) is to balance for the Thalans low population growth (which makes them incredibly good if there is no penalty to population growth).

The Yor Power Plants are something else again, they are the power plants combined with farms (which the Yor lack).

The three are not the same thing and they don't have to be. They don't even have to be equally strong, because they are part of an entire tech tree. The tech trees should be as strong as each other however. This is not the case for the Yor-tree-sythetic-combination as compared to others. The Drengin tech tree has among other things the disadvantage of having no general boosts to their ships (as compared to the torian +20% evasion for example).

I do agree, that Yor needs some attention. I have rewritten the AI for most other races where necessary, for the Yor I feel genuinly disencouraged, because I don't have the hope to bring them up to the others level.

Making synthetic a trait which essentially requires the Yor tech tree was a bad move in my opinion. If left as it is, I would combine the synthetic trait with an empire wide +5 or +10 (not %!) social manufacturing. I also wouldn't disagree with making the Yor Power plants manufacturing+research improvemnts. Or giving the Yor Manufacturing and Research Capitals.

Not a knock on the synthetic ability except it is more of a penalty, not a advantage. A good solution is give them a extra trait besides synthetic, and productive.  

So the Thalan and the yor were in a similar boat, except they fixed it for the Thalan. 

It does seemfairr adding a equivalent to power plants, and capitals, or just having power plants, but bringing back that galactic achievement they had in two.

Ok part of the problem is the matrix is confused it doesn't know if it is a farm, or a power plant. As a power plant it can only be built one per colony vs. a farm it loses hands down which can be built as long as there is room. You could build 28 farms on a planet if there is room. If you are the Yor, and colonise a class 25 planet; after, teriforming you could build one. In the population department it loses hands down. To add insult to injury, not talking about free production from farms in the form of people breeding as long as the planet is not capped out while you do whatever. Were synthetic that's all right except in the ability section where productive cancels out synthetic giving us only two abilities. What i'm talking about is adding buildings to increase population growth. Now yes the Yor could build factories. We know the Terrans can't build factories obviously ficisious. My point making buildings that can increase assemble speed kind of like the hospitals for organucs.

This causes the resuting early game to be at a disadvantage for the Yor. Organics getting free production from planets while the Yor is busy developing their planets. Losing the colony rush almost meaniing losing the game, but in the mod game after their colonies are pretty developed we have instantly fully populated Yor planets. Even in the late when organics fully developed planets are full with population. They begin converting factories into farms; because in the end production is more flexible than manufacturing. The Yor just can't do this because the matrix is to powerful to have more than one per planet; because it is a replacement for the power plant losing the late game. 

In two this would not be a deal because of adjancencies. In three it is a big deal; because the closest thing we have to a power plant is the matrix; which, is a population food improvement, not a manufacturing improvement The adjancencies don't work for two reasons first factories, and research plants aren't farms causing for there to be no adjancency bonuses. Which means doesn't work as a power plant... The second do to the power of the matrix we can only build ione per planet.

What needs to be done is to have two improvements. One for increasing population,and one to replace the power plants. For these reasons combining the two doesn't work unless no one cares about adjancies or population.

You are forgetting something.

If the Yor Matrices are the only Farm replacement there is, how can Yor planets go up to 30/40/50 population?

For free! (in terms of improvement slots)

They only need to use one building slot in order to have a 30/40/50 pop planet, because they get pop cap from techs, not from farms. Giving the Yor tree farms, would be harmfull in my opinion, because then the Yor tree is more like all the others and there is less variety in the game. It is very nice how the Yor are different from the others, it is just the numbers which don't make them competitive with the bios.

The biggest thing the Yor really need is a bonus to their colonies at the start, which compensates the lack of growth. Hence my simple suggestion of adding 5 social manufacturing (not 10 since, one can also consider the production cost of farms and hospitals, the yor dont need to pay) to every colony due to the synthetic trait. So doesn't this reduce variety, too? Yes it does, it makes the Yor a colony rushing faction aswell. But in difference to the population situation, I don't see an easy way around that.

I've been playing the hot, and not figured how to do that. How do you do than.

The matrix improvements are +4/6/8/10

Techs: (cumulative on all planets without tiles, +23)

Power Matrix +2

Reproduction Capacity +1

Fusion Matrix +2

Reproductive Augmentation +1

Antimatter Matrix +3

Reproductive Efficacy +2

Quantum Matrix +5

Quantum Miniaturization +6

Accelerated Reproduction +1

Base cap (15) + matrix improvement (10) + techs (23) = 48 population cap. It takes (1) tile to get this with synthetic. It takes non-synth 7 tiles to get this (less with good placement).

Midgame it will take a bio world 50+ turns to fill it up. Synth can do it in 6-8 + travel time.

Midgame any manufacturing spec world worth a damn should be doing the best available assembly project in 1-2 turns. With a small fleet of transports/colony ships to distribute the excess you have a major population advantage over non-synth races.

The Yor start slow (by design), but make up for it later.

Ok lets compare the yor with the terrans in the late game. Since production is the most effective way to utilize stuff eventually everything, but morale improvements gets converted to farms. Since the Terrans homeworld is a class 11 i'm going to use it first. MInus one for capital, and minus one for entertainment. Aftera whole lot of turns. Everything else finally gets converted to farms. that gives ten spaces. Hopefully the colony unique buildings only apply to upgrading the previous building, or this is even cheesier. I picked +1, and 15% to food on specialisation.  we get 40 from exotic farms. Plus a 50% to food which is 40+20+60. Add in starting 15+60+75. Going back to 40 for specialization which adds 7. 75+7+82. Now I will say a class 11 in the late game is feazable. Now lets say that the galactic event of class 25 worlds happen. Which will be longer for this to happen considering this takes place later in the game. Instead of 40 you get 110 from farming. Instead of 20 from a colony unique food improvement building you get 55 on food. Instead of 6 from specialization you get 17. This becomes 15+110+55+17+1=198 for population. Now considering the terrans are considered average not over powered I don't think this needs to be done for everybody. 198-48=150 more population. 150 more raw production points. 82-48=34 34 more raw production points. Still taking into account the terrans will probably get more planets due to a higher raw production in the beginning. In order to get a 49 production with the Terrans in the late game you would be on a class 7 planet. 48 for the Yor 49 for the Terran is close. 48 sounds like a lot until you do the math the other way. This assumes smartest gameplay, only in the end do you try to convert everything into farms, and one at a time. If you did this in the beginning factories is a more efficient way to go.

Now let's bring in bottom of the list underdogs the Altarians from other posts these guys also needs some love not just the Yor. Assuming a class 11 world. Lossless farming the same +5 to food for farms, two specilizations for +1 food making this a +2, 15% added food production specialization, but the food multiplying building is only 25%. 15 is the base max population. Late game converting everything except entertainment into farms would be more efficient only in the late game. 15+40+10+6+2=73. Which is 9 less than the terrans, but is 25 more than the Yor. Now we do the random event class 25 worlds. 15+110+28+17+2=172 which is 26 less than the Terrans, but is 124 more than the Yor. This time they need at least an 8 to beat the yor. A 7 would only give 45 versus an 8 would give 52 next to the Yor's 48. A Terran would have a 49 for class 7, but a 8 would give 58. 48 sounds like a lot until you compare us to the underdog.

After scaling down the Thalans the Iconians are now probably the strongest on the game. Shall we do a comparison. They have two not one food increase buildings. Their max is higher. 16.5. Specialization is 1+.5+10%. They have two food increase buildings not one 20% and 50% at the end of tree. 16.5+35+18+7+4+1.5=82 Let's assume we only use one food bonus building. 16.5+40+20+4+1.5= 82. The extra food bonus didn't make a difference, and they are on par with the terrans here. Now let's check the random event 25. First we use both buildings. 16.5+105+53+21+11++1.5+208. Compare to Yor's 48 is a 160 more production. 36 more than the altarians. Without using the second food building you get 50 on a class 7.

48 sounds like a lot until add up the others in the early they will win the population, and get more planets. In the mid game the Yor wins with max population; because lack of population buildings the Yor is done here with free production from growth. Let's hope everyone else is. This works for less experienced players. Probsbly fine for single player. If it's multiplayer with experienced people who read forums. The mid game is where the Yor needs to do it's fighting if they are going to win by conquest. In the late game is; also, where the Yor lose. Non of their planets are increasing in population where everyone else is still increasing in population slowly reaching the proportions I suggest above depending on the class of planets.

48 sounds like a lot until you look at the other people. I only looked at the farming techs, not any other one's. If this works like two then there is a serious morale balancing that gives the Yor the most advantage here, but I hear that it doesn't work that way.

Can you still use transports to overfill population? If so, yor have the sigular advantage not of immense baseline capacity, but virtually unlimited capacity. Have a small number of crap worlds pump assemblies and immediately ship the pops out to the meagworlds. Who needs farms?

No I tried they fixed that.

Cherry picking capital world and maxing pop, yes you'll get a huge production base. But a Class 4 junk world still can have 48 population for the Yor, and your manufacturing plant can fill it in just a few turns. Where as you'll need ~250 turns to fill up that 198 pop home world (with a 'good' growth rate).

Bios need to find a balance between population and manufacturing/research/econ buildings, synth just throw alot of 'people' at a planet and go.

I checked the planet file when did anyone see a random class four.

There were lots of random low class planets like that in galciv2. You could colonize then but there was a heavy economic penalty.

I used to colonize them to get the alignment shift i wanted and then destroy the colony

There were some class 20+ they took them both out.