Some people need to take a chill pill and stop f-ing whining, before someone starts handing out the cheese. Seriously there isnt a single issue with money in the game now, if your having problems getting money then perhaps you need to learn how to play.

By turn 700 I had over 50,000 gold saved up... Doh... doesnt seem to be a problem there getting money. Its simple you get one gold mine + palace + 1gp per turn Janusk + mint + bazaar etc... and it makes for some pretty sick gold per turn.

wow.  thank you for your incredibly helpful advice.  that will really help me in the beginning of the game.  i bet i can get all of those buildings up by turn 10.  and it works so well for mp too!  because everyone can build those 1 per game buildings!  

oh and that "quit whining" bit is always a hoot!  its like people don't realize that they are whining about people whining!  laugh.

Seems to be a huge improvement for me.  So, played through a game this evening, not a single crash (I still had them often in 1.07; Win 7 64-bit nVidia gtx 295), just one instance where a turn wouldn't advance, fixed by loading the autosave, got married had a child and married her off to a minor faction with no cities (little did I know that DOH!), killed off all my heroes due to random carelessness and neglect (and autoresolve), ran some quests, took over one kingdom when the sovereign made a suicide run, the other two were a hack'n'slash through each of their cities, and everything else ran smooth as could be.  Thanks!  It still needs a bunch of improvements but tonight I found it a fun, recommendable game.

Gold was no issue for me but food was.  I was running food deficit for awhile there--negative 7 food a turn for probably several dozen turns, ugh.  So I remembered what I read on the forums and started buiding a lot of caravans, plus irrigation in food centers, and that seemed to get my food production up to the +4 range.  By then I had pretty much won the game, but, I don't know, maybe that is one of the systems that can be "fine tuned" =p.  Food production feels pretty opaque.

Finally, I never geared up my sovereign with anything because he was too busy casting spells.  Yeah, he finished the game with the little wooden club.  Magic seems to have more kick now.  Good to see.

Ok thisisretarded. The game changed a bit. How about trying to change with it? Adapt your strategies. Find ways to cover those holes in your income. Think outside the box. That's what the rest of us do.

I think you'll find that the game is much much better now, than it was before.

Asmodean a.k.a. Morten

My biggest grip is now the AI is even easier to beat. Its making silly mistakes like not connecting up to food so staying at lvl 1 cities, and not prioritizing gold mines high enough. Its very simple minded right now it seems. I hope frogboy has time to work on the ai more. But I guess I probably won't be playing this much after Tuesday I guess, so he can take all the time he wants. Once I'm tired of Civ 5 I will patch this up and see whats changed.

The biggest problem for me still is AI suicide.  They wander into my territory, go up to a city and attack.  Well with the improvement of magic its even easier to kill them.   I think either the AI needs to be improved to the point where AI will only fight on enemy ground if its a sure thing,  or the mechanic where death of the Sov means all the cities die needs to go.  Theres no challenge when the AI has a death wish. 

i'm still having the OOM error and i'm running  amd 64bit phenom II 4870 with drivers perhaps a few months old.

I disabled a bunch of programs in the background.  I still get the OOM error but its not as numerous.

So... has anyone figured out why it costs food to get money buildings? It's not like food is abundant or anything, this makes merchants an absolute no-build ever. 1 food for 1 gildar per turn is a horrible deal, I'm not sure who thought this would be a productive change. This is just bizarre.

Troubled, I don't see why trading 1 food for 1 gildar would be a problem considering that you start next to a resource that gives you 4 food. I, at least, have never had a problem with generating any resources besides elementium (can you even generate that?) and crystal empire-side (nothing I research seems to reveal any crystal for me, even though I get that temple to increase crystal production). That said, early game is a bit of a balancing act and you just have to wait on the gildar building until you can afford it (should be within first few buildings, maybe after arcane and tech gen buildings if you built a square away from farm tile).

Say, to level up?

Agreed.

I already had markets at lowest priority before, due to its food consumption, and only built them if I'm pretty sure I don't need more housing and if city has at least one gold mine.

Now, game is even more resource dependent (bad for AI, good for smart player).

I found the biggest mistakes people make is not building merchants.  They are a necessity.  The impact of losing one food is not as big as you think. I prioritized building merchants and by turn 100 I was doing fine money wise.  They might also be the best building in the game.  They cost almost nothing except for the food.  I have been building one in every city and had no shortage of food.  Population has no value in itself,  it only matters for growth levels.  If they didn't cost food they would be extremely unbalanced.  All you would do is spam cities and build merchants.  This effectively ends that spamming.  I have found this has made the game much deeper because now I have to find resources and judge if it worth building a city. Without the food requirement I think they would have to eliminate the merchant completely and come up with a new way for cities to make money.

So... we can still spam arcane research?

Right?

Unfortunately I need that food for housing for two cities. Food is a unique resource in the sense that it is capped and you never really get too much of. Wasting a precious food is a horrible move for one paltry gold per turn, which I could get more easily by killing stuff.

It's not that it totally ruins my game, it is just a very questionable balance decision if Stardock wanted to make every building relevant. There are already a mess of useless weapons, armors, and other things. Buildings should not be in this category as well.

The problem with the merchant was that it was completely unbalanced.  Maybe if you had to get your city to tier 2 or 3 this wouldn't be a problem but it cost basically nothing for 1 gildar per turn.  Spamming cities to build unlimited merchants became the best strategy in the game, and it just became tedious.

Are you using Caravans? They give a food bonus. I haven't had any problems having enough food, due to the use of Caravans.

Irrigration costs 1 gold to maintain and gives +25% food (which is essentially +1 for cities with 1 food resource)

Merchant costs 1 food to maintain and gives 1 gold per turn.

Interesting...

Problem is, most of you people complaining didn't really bother or need to learn the real mechanic of the game other then go out and kill monsters to get gold. Now you need to. Basically, you are only now starting to learn the game. Besides, if you REALLY want to get 50 gold for killing wolf, wait for 1.09 patch. SD did announce that they will include an option on how much gold is earned from monsters in the next patch.

Also, food was intended to be scarce resource, IIRC. It's post-apocalyptic world, food is hard to come by. Those who control the food, rule. Seems to me that works as designed. I suppose adding food requirement for merchants adds to it as it makes food more important then gold.

Some of you don't realize that SD can't make a game that will please everyone. Some were complaining on the monster driven economy while others want it. So when SD makes a patch and nerfs such economy other side starts whining. Maybe SD should change it back so the first group can start whining again? Maybe they should constantly issue patches trying to please some group that want's this or that want's that. Or maybe, just maybe, SD should make a game as they envisioned it and let the modding community change gameplay. After all, that is what modding is for.

SD should realize their vision of elmental. They ask for the help/ideas of the community. This offer is so unusual at this time in the bussiness. But I get the feeling some people think Stardock can realize everyones vision of the game and thats not possible.

1.08 seems to be a step in the right direction. Its seems to be more challenging. But i have not tested 1.08 enough. Pls, dont forget it was written that this Patch is a first step. Real gameplay changes are announced for patch 1.1.

I am very pleased with the economic direction the game takes.

So what you end up having is troops with the latest equipment because they're like 20 gold or so decked out and a sovereign in rags. Which is fine because once you have a shard or two in magic it's pretty much a wrap for anything on the map. A 2 mana spell will deal enough damage to kill anything.

More importantly the worst change was tying food and gildar producing buildings together. Food is already very limited, and now this?

Also the "Stop whining" posts are terrible. They want criticism so people are giving it to them. How about you stop being fanboys?

They up'd (sp?) the food resource spawn to balance this. I dont have a problem with this in my game.

And i think it is cool, because it stops early city spam.

Shop prices are totally to high, i agree.

Edit: I made a suggestion here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/396783/page/1/#2775340

Perhaps, but I would much prefer to read criticism in a polite and constructive manner, than reading some of the cry-babies that seem to gather on these forums. Seriously....why can't ppl just talk politely to eachother.

Asmodean