1st Game on Unfair AI: 4 Star Systems & 9 AI

from Sins Forums

So I decided to play a harder game.  Perhaps as preperation for online play.  But I noticed some rather

aweful aspects of the game.  Teams were unlocked.  I thought it made sense to try this.

As I played, the different factions were giving me missions.  Honest, I didn't "do" any of them

on purpose, but simpy by going out and expanding you are likely to make someone else happy: "enemy

of my enemy is my friend" sort of thing.  And it turned out, I made two allies this way.  With one of them,

we had all of the available pacts you can have (cease fire to) and he loved me 100%.  So I continued to play and expand

going into the enemies' territory to expand.  After a while, the "friend" I had calls everything off and starts

a war with me.

As I looked around, it became obvious that the AI was using me to take out all of the enemies of my original "friend"

so that he could then take me out.  I suspect that this is the way it happens in unlocked tams and it begs the question:

why in the hell would anyone want to play that part of the game???

Even w/o the next expansion (which I have pre-ordered) it should be very vry difficult and for good reason to break

a cease fire.  I mean, yes, it is a game.  But cease fires mean something in the real world and should at least be

reflected in this game.  If the game is about "last man standing," then why have diplomacy to begin with???

29,225 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

A question:  what were you going to do once you conquered all your enemies and your friend stayed your friend all the way through?  Turn on him/her?  Good on the AI for getting the drop on ya, I say. ;)

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, no one really places with teams on because of this. Why do you think so many people wanted them to do a diplomacy expansion? ;)

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I've won games without having to kill my ally.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting mwdowns, reply 1
A question:  what were you going to do once you conquered all your enemies and your friend stayed your friend all the way through?  Turn on him/her?  Good on the AI for getting the drop on ya, I say.
End of mwdowns's quote

 

me?  We had a peace agreement.  The galaxy was big enough for the both of us.  I would have honored my word.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

You can "win" the game (victory dialog comes up) if you kill all opposing players while you have a peace treaty in effect with your ally.  If you have a peace treaty in effect with two players but they do not have one with each other, then it gets complicated....

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting HellishFiend, reply 5
You can "win" the game (victory dialog comes up) if you kill all opposing players while you have a peace treaty in effect with your ally.  If you have a peace treaty in effect with two players but they do not have one with each other, then it gets complicated....
End of HellishFiend's quote

 

well, like I said, my ally cancelled everything. 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Personally I never expect the AI to keeps its word. And I never expect to keep mine either. I get a cease fire, build a starbase in their capital, fully upgrade it, and then BETRAY!

 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

In my (limited) experience the AI offering you alliance is an excellent opportunity to build  a star base over there key planets...

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I've found the AI to be quite good about keeping our alliances, so long as I have an overwhelming force just chilling at a number of his planets.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

the points the last 3 posts seem to imply is that the AI is rather immature.  I'd almost they never implemented it in the juvenile fashion that they did, but rather saved the whole shabang for this next expansion.

Lesson learned: don't play unlocked teams and expect any AI at its word.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

My post was more addressing the way you could deal with any ally you don't fully trust.  Setting staging points for operations often happens to coincide quite nicely with keeping your ally "honest."

I actually think the AI is fairly mature in this aspect, honestly.  I've had human players betray me in much more immature manners before.  The AI is only doing what I would do in any temporary alliance situation: work together as much as possible to accomplish your coordinated goals, but constantly prepare for the inevitable (yes, inevitable) betrayal.  And if I'm really on my game, I betray first.

Remember, both you and your AI ally are trying to dominate that quadrant of space.  It's very unlikely the two dominant powers will stay friends until the very end.  If you really still think the AI is immature in this fashion, try playing unlocked teams with some human players and watch the devious tricks real humans will do.  (Real nations aren't really any different, either.  It just takes them longer.)

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JSW_Ballz, reply 11
My post was more addressing the way you could deal with any ally you don't fully trust.  Setting staging points for operations often happens to coincide quite nicely with keeping your ally "honest."

I actually think the AI is fairly mature in this aspect, honestly.  I've had human players betray me in much more immature manners before.  The AI is only doing what I would do in any temporary alliance situation: work together as much as possible to accomplish your coordinated goals, but constantly prepare for the inevitable (yes, inevitable) betrayal.  And if I'm really on my game, I betray first.

Remember, both you and your AI ally are trying to dominate that quadrant of space.  It's very unlikely the two dominant powers will stay friends until the very end.  If you really still think the AI is immature in this fashion, try playing unlocked teams with some human players and watch the devious tricks real humans will do.  (Real nations aren't really any different, either.  It just takes them longer.)
End of JSW_Ballz's quote

This is why I play locked teams only, whats the point of allies if eventualy your going to battle anyway?I'm starting to wonder if Diplomacy is going to offer anything to players who only play locked teams.

I see this game as space warfare and the diplomacy only delays the inenvitable, and if you end the game with 2 allies? Your DONE. And have to load up another game for somemore warfare.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

(Real nations aren't really any different, either. It just takes them longer.)
End of quote

and they dont go straight to the "blowing everything up" stage right away.

Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top

What I always do is station a number of fleets in stategic positions before finishing off the enemy. Your ally will ignore 'friendly fleets' as long as you have a common enemy. That way when your ally turns against you as you defeat the enemy, you are in a perfect position to strike.

Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting wbino, reply 12
This is why I play locked teams only, whats the point of allies if eventualy your going to battle anyway?I'm starting to wonder if Diplomacy is going to offer anything to players who only play locked teams.
End of wbino's quote

im thinking.....probably not. diplomancy focuses on diplomancy, and if u have locked teams there is no room for diplomancy. thus nothing new for locked team players :grin:

but i, a locked team player, can't wait for diplomancy because that might mean i can start keeping that teams button unlocked :andrew:

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JSW_Ballz, reply 11
My post was more addressing the way you could deal with any ally you don't fully trust.  Setting staging points for operations often happens to coincide quite nicely with keeping your ally "honest."

I actually think the AI is fairly mature in this aspect, honestly.  I've had human players betray me in much more immature manners before.  The AI is only doing what I would do in any temporary alliance situation: work together as much as possible to accomplish your coordinated goals, but constantly prepare for the inevitable (yes, inevitable) betrayal.  And if I'm really on my game, I betray first.

Remember, both you and your AI ally are trying to dominate that quadrant of space.  It's very unlikely the two dominant powers will stay friends until the very end.  If you really still think the AI is immature in this fashion, try playing unlocked teams with some human players and watch the devious tricks real humans will do.  (Real nations aren't really any different, either.  It just takes them longer.)
End of JSW_Ballz's quote

you illustrate the reason I do not play online.  I wouldn't trust my fellow human players!  Heck, we can't even trust them to be the noobs they sometimes claim to be.

To me, in general, it should take skill and effort to gain an alliance, and that alliance should not EASILY, if at all, be broken.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

yeah, but even with locked team ffa people have the (annoying) tendancy to make ninja alliances.

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting anteachtaire, reply 17
yeah, but even with locked team ffa people have the (annoying) tendancy to make ninja alliances.
End of anteachtaire's quote

I had that happen to me.  Pissed me the f*ck off.  Kinda my fault though, I played my hand early and basically allowed two of the players to figure out how strong I was before I felt like wiping one of them out.  That, and it was (supposed to be) a friendly game, so I figured it'd be in poor taste to completely eliminate someone too early.

Quoting knownalien, reply 16
I wouldn't trust my fellow human players!
End of knownalien's quote

Usually a wise decision.  However, if you're conniving enough, you can pull what one of my friends did and offer ship vison to every other player.  Sure, every player will know what you're doing, but they'll think you're trying to be friendly with them, and you'll know the entire map.  Fair warning thoug: it only works once.  We (the other players) figured it out between games.