Elections

It's a thread in the Off-Topic forum. Looks fine to me.

Just keep it friendly and civil and everybody's happy.

Just keep it friendly and civil and everybody's happy

good point, no flaming pls

there's almost no difference anymore... it's like two mob families, all ignoring the ticking time bomb that is the house of cards this country is built on. civil rights being taken away left and right and increasing christian fundamentalist values being imposed on a country supposedly with freedom of religion.

news flash, there are 3 major banks that run this country now. they basically rape our civil liberties and everything the founding fathers died for so that you can pretend to feel like voting for canidate a or b matters.

hell, did you know there is no law in the usa requiring one to pay federal income tax? it's a complete fraud on the american people. the supreme court have even ruled it to be unconstitutional TWICE! do you know that federal income tax is entirely spent on paying the national debt? did you know the 3 richest banks in america make amazing profits off of your tax money through interest? did you know they are literally creating money out of thin air so the american dollar is currently worth four cents?

so go on with your debates about democrats and republicans. it is exactly what they want you to do. argue over nothing so that the people making money keep us from seeing that they are destroying everything in the world and we are basically powerless to stop it. the politicians don't care about the american people anymore. it's a big joke. they care about profit margins and bottom lines. if they didn't, then congress would use their constitutional power to shut down the federal reserve.

a dollar used to mean you could actually go to a bank and exchange it for gold. nobody even will answer where the american peoples gold went now... it's such a fraud...

This just doesn't work without Karma.

This just doesn't work without Karma.

well, lets try anyway

a dollar used to mean you could actually go to a bank and exchange it for gold. nobody even will answer where the american peoples gold went now... it's such a fraud...

um... a little behind on your global economics there... eh?
money is backed by the worth of your bank.

hell, did you know there is no law in the usa requiring one to pay federal income tax? it's a complete fraud on the american people. the supreme court have even ruled it to be unconstitutional TWICE!

woah, hey... you just contradicted yourself extremely. you cant rule unconstitutionality on what doesnt exist...
but either way, find me the federal documents on that, that would be interesting to read.

did you know they are literally creating money out of thin air so the american dollar is currently worth four cents?

well... now that democrats are in charge, yes thats likely to happen
I know what inflation is, and because we have had a Republican majority for a while, its been stopped ("the man" protects you far better than Dems would have you believe)

sorry for my skepticism ticks, find me some real stuff to support 1/2 that and then I'll listen to you
until then, lets argue in ignorant bliss.

I hope some of you relise almost nothing will happen in the change, both the parties have pretty much the same views sure they have a diffrent outlook on certain issues, but the real power change wont happen till the presidencial election which at thsi point also looks like it will go to the Democrats unless Bush can improve his approval rating(kind of ironic hes had one of the lowest and highest approval ratings in the history of this country) or the Republicans get some brand spanking new candidate that woos the people and gets votes.

But there a lot of time between 2006 and 2008, still i like the change.  

both the parties have pretty much the same views

how do you get that...?

Well dont they, i mean sure they will be divided on issues like abortion and taxes and the education system, but in the end they dont really run things diffrently i havent ever heard of any new acomplishment they have been able to achieve in the past 50 years that they didnt barrow from each other or others.

i havent ever heard of any new acomplishment they have been able to achieve in the past 50 years that they didnt barrow from each other or others

thats because the system forces them to compromise

of course, their views on the way things are run are COMPLETELY polar opposite. for instance: Democrats like protecting civil liberties and personal rights, but also love sucking your wallet dry Republicans: Like letting you keep all the money you want, but love to oppress you with bills that oppress civil liberties

tahts why I'm a Libertarian, civil liberties, less taxes, and best of all: NOBODY TO TELL ME HOW HIGH MY GRASS NEEDS TO BE CUT! (I hate my town... so... damn... much...)

Lol nicely said.. I myself view both the parties as idiotic contraptions of bussinessmen and lawers who are lying to the public for personal gain and stealing good ideas from lesser parties that dont have enough money to advertise. And when they cant get new ideas, they just bash the "supposed" ideas of the person running against them.

if you call yourself a libertarian then you should've agreed with everything i said in my last post. instead, you took the stand of fox news.

if you call yourself a libertarian then you should've agreed with everything i said in my last post. instead, you took the stand of fox news.

I said I was a libertarian
not a nut that lives on the side of the street screaming about aliens...  


just kidding ya ticks, I'm just not much of an extremist

here's a nice article that any libertarian should find interesting

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21745

and here's more...

What if you knew that some argue that income tax is unconstitutional? In his book Federal Mafia: How It Illegally Imposes and Unlawfully Collects Income Taxes, Irwin Schiff asserts that Americans are not legally required to pay taxes. "In 1986, 99.5 million Americans were tricked into filing and paying federal income taxes when legally, they didn't have to do either," he wrote. Schiff and other opponents of the income tax argue that the Internal Revenue Service (I.R.S.) has usurped authority that it does not legally possess and that the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified and is, therefore, invalid. According to SupremeLaw.org, the I.R.S. is not part of the United States Department of the Treasury and is not a "lawful organization." An article entitled "31 Questions And Answers About The Internal Revenue Service" by Paul Andrew, states, "At footnote 23 in the case of Chrysler Corp. v. Brown... the U.S. Supreme Court admitted that no organic Act for the I.R.S. could be found, after they searched for such an Act all the way back to the Civil War... Since there was no organic Act creating it, I.R.S. is not a lawful organization." In 1999, We The People, an organization founded to "protect, preserve and enhance the unalienable rights, liberties and freedoms of the people," launched its Legality-of-Income-Tax campaign. The project, headed by Chairman Bob Schulz, is designed to "get the federal government to respond to the petitions for a redress of grievances related to the allegedly fraudulent and illegal income tax system." Schulz cites five primary points which affirm his organization's belief that income tax is unconstitutional. 1. In 1913, the 16th Amendment was "fraudulently and illegally declared to be ratified" by Secretary of State Philander Knox; 2. There is no law that requires most Americans to "file a tax return, pay the federal income tax or have the tax withheld from their earnings;" 3. People who file a Form 1040 "'voluntarily' waive their 5th Amendment right not to bear witness against themselves;" 4. The IRS "routinely violates citizens' 4th Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure," by failing to properly obtain warrants issued; and 5. The IRS "routinely and grossly violates citizens' due process rights" and "operates far outside the boundaries" of U.S. law. Schulz wrote in a letter to the I.R.S. in June 2002, "I believe the federal income tax to be fraudulent in its origin and illegal in its operation... I believe the I.R.S. lacks the legal authority to force employers to withhold the income tax from the paychecks of its employees or to force most Americans, including me, to file a tax return and to pay the income tax." In 2001, Representative Ron Paul (R-Texas) proposed a constitutional amendment -- called the "Liberty Amendment" -- that would repeal the 16th Amendment. He argued that the United States successfully existed for almost one and a half centuries without income tax, and that rather than improve Americans' lives, the income tax has been a detriment. "The income tax has given government a claim on our lives," he stated. "It has enabled government to expand far beyond its proper limits, invade our privacy and penalize our every endeavor. The Founding Fathers never intended an income tax, and they certainly would be dismayed to know that Americans today give more than a third of their income to the federal government." Some business owners agree with critics of the income tax. David Cay Johnston reported in his article "Owners Quit Paying" in The New York Times that some businesses have stopped withholding taxes from their employees' paychecks. Al Thompson, owner of a Florida aviation company, told his employees that, legally, "Income taxes must be paid by only a few Americans," and that he would no longer be withholding income tax, Social Security, or Medicare taxes from their paychecks, nor would he report to the I.R.S. how much his employees earned. In a 2004 letter to the I.R.S., Schulz wrote, "[T]he federal government -- like a thief in the night -- has subtly, over many years, stripped the American people of our liberty, our property, and in many cases, our very lives in order to protect and perpetuate a fraudulent, debt-based money system -- and the life-blood of that system -- the horribly unjust and unconstitutional personal income tax." He continued, "The unlawful and unjust income tax system produces nothing but sorrow, distress and calamity and division in our society. It has been imposed on an unsuspecting people through deceptive and fraudulent means -- outside of constitutional restraints."

about the gold...

http://hardtruth.topcities.com/nelsonrockefellerandfortknoxscandel.htm First, about Fort Knox. You know, the Fort Knox Gold Scandal is just like the Watergate Scandal in one respect: There is a desperate cover-up going on right now just as happened with Watergate. The Fort Knox Gold Scandal cover-up really passed the point of no return last September when the United States Treasury perpetrated the Fort Knox gold inspection hoax in an attempt to discredit my charges that there's no gold in Fort Knox because it had all been illegally removed. Since that time the Government has been getting in deeper and deeper and deeper, involving more and more people in all sorts of maneuvers to try to keep the lid on. For example, when the Congressmen and newsmen visited Fort Knox last September, news stories promised everybody that the visit would be followed up by an audit of the Fort Knox gold by the General Accounting Office, but what they actually did was just a very superficial exercise just to make the record look good, and the group of 15 men that did it had only two (2) General Accounting Office representatives on it. All the rest were from the Treasury itself--in other words, the fox went into the henhouse to count our chickens for us.

about the fed reserve...

In 1964, Wright Patman completed a thorough examination of the Federal Reserve System. His work duplicates and reinforces the work done by McFadden. Chairman of a powerful House Banking Committee, Patman wrote eight pages totally damning of the Fed. Of significant interest, he describes the incident when the Fed threatened to veto Kennedy by turning off his money. Kennedy backed down. That incident alone illustrates the dictatorial power of the Fed.

libertarians are some of the biggest critizers of the FED...

Business cycles, libertarian philosophy and free markets Economists of the Austrian School such as Ludwig von Mises contend that the Federal Reserve's artificial manipulation of the money supply leads to the boom/bust business cycle that has occurred over the last century. Many economic libertarians, such as Austrian School economist Murray Rothbard, believe that the Federal Reserve's manipulation of the money supply to stop "gold flight" from England caused, or was instrumental in causing, the Great Depression. In general, laissez-faire advocates of free banking argue that there is no better judge of the proper interest rate and money supply than the market. Nobel Economist Milton Friedman says he "prefer[s] to abolish the federal reserve system altogether."[1]. Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve, stated: "I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again."

now i realize this is all heavy reading. do some digging yourself instead of asking me to give you us govt econ lessons. it doesn't take long to figure out that this whole country is f'd up.

to top that off, while we've all be asleep at the wheel, the evangelicals have taken over 50 percent of the US voter block and most of the senate and congress. which makes being a libertarian much, much harder.

What if you knew that some argue that income tax is unconstitutional?

unfortunately the income tax is nescessary, it should be decreased, granted, but it is absolutely nescessary
I have no delustions about that

the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified and is, therefore, invalid.

what the hell does he mean by this, how is it improperly ratified

proposed a constitutional amendment -- called the "Liberty Amendment" -- that would repeal the 16th Amendment

what? I thought it didnt exist?

for almost one and a half centuries without income tax

...
only a moron would think that the income tax is not nescessary to run this government, we are beyond 1&1/2 centuries, and any modern government would need one to survive (let alone one such as ours), our nation is way larger than it was, and over the last 50 or so years it has become nescessary to have it overregulated, this should be changed, but jacked thru the wall? no... talk about wanting a major global depression.

and they certainly would be dismayed to know that Americans today give more than a third of their income to the federal government."

weighing gains against losses, you make way more because of that tax than you lose. its true to the end

and in many cases, our very lives

wow, just lost all remaining credibility with me...

that there's no gold in Fort Knox because it had all been illegally removed.

the fox went into the henhouse to count our chickens for us

... this is soviet era propaganda turned anti-government

In 1964, Wright Patman completed a thorough examination of the Federal Reserve System. His work duplicates and reinforces the work done by McFadden. Chairman of a powerful House Banking Committee, Patman wrote eight pages totally damning of the Fed. Of significant interest, he describes the incident when the Fed threatened to veto Kennedy by turning off his money. Kennedy backed down. That incident alone illustrates the dictatorial power of the Fed.

I can understand you hating this, I hate the imballance to, but unfortunately I see that this system makes me money, and doesnt tread on my civil liberties, ergo I'm happy.

Economists of the Austrian School such as Ludwig von Mises contend that the Federal Reserve's artificial manipulation of the money supply leads to the boom/bust business cycle that has occurred over the last century.

and yet we are the richest country in the world

Our dollar isn't worth the most, but we sure as hell are the richest and most powerful

I see this as a lot of nutso crap, well, asside from the FED one...
but either way, I'll do some searching, I'll find some credibal sources that support you, and some credibal sources that call you a complete nut

well I'll post when I'm done

only a moron would think that the income tax is not nescessary to run this government, we are beyond 1&1/2 centuries, and any modern government would need one to survive (let alone one such as ours), our nation is way larger than it was, and over the last 50 or so years it has become nescessary to have it overregulated, this should be changed, but jacked thru the wall? no... talk about wanting a major global depression.

omg, you can't be that stupid... seriously... you can't be that stupid.

we have plenty of taxes. we have sales taxes, trading taxes, tire taxes, plate tax, property tax, tobacco tax, state income tax, do you really want me to list more? cuz the list would go on for A VERY LONG TIME. this govt was doing fine before fed income tax, fyi...

schem, you have no idea what your even talking about half the time, do you? stick to science fiction...

at the point where you didn't understand what it means for an admendment to be ratified proves it pretty much. these aren't conspiracies... this is real, ffs.

and your "reliable sources" wtf?!?? most of those quotes were takin from extremely reliable sources. have you never heard of TOTO? probably not... you sound like a high school grad with very little grasp of politics. probably get your knowledge on the subject from your parents and right wingers by the sound of it.

you have absolutely no right calling yourself a libertarian. just because you got a boner while watching penn and teller does not mean you have any kind of firm grasp as to what it means to be.

this isn't a conspiracy... 100 percent of federal income tax goes to pay the national debt. the national debt payments make the controlling banks interest. they make interest off you. your tax money is making bankers rich. does this confuse you?

PLEASE WATCH THIS MOVIE TRAILER NOW, AS IT MAY BE A MEDIUM YOU UNDERSTAND MORE THEN CALLING ME A CRACKPOT.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/americafreedomtofacism/trailer/

If this nations has plenty of taxes than why is this government in 6 trillion dollars in debt, plus its citizens are greatly suffering from poverty and economic instability(at least currently). And please dont go calling people stupid... it will take you to a place where no one will listen to you, i mean if he said something you dont agree with dont go calling him stupid just say i dont agree and state you reasons. Lets not turn this into a grudge war of whos right and whos wrong, keep it clean and we can have a intelligent discusion about the Elections.

at the point where you didn't understand what it means for an admendment to be ratified proves it pretty much

no... I just dont understand how it cant be "properly" ratified, ratification is as simple as government comes, how can it be ratified if not ratified... pls, just some clarification?

we have plenty of taxes. we have sales taxes, trading taxes, tire taxes, plate tax, property tax, tobacco tax, state income tax, do you really want me to list more? cuz the list would go on for A VERY LONG TIME. this govt was doing fine before fed income tax, fyi...

but we have moved into a space era. with the world we are moving into today we need that money, and besides, the rolling debt is what is so damn nescessary for us to survive! you do know what the rolling debt is... right?

you have absolutely no right calling yourself a libertarian

well, maybe I should call myself a moderate with a tendancy to diminish government

because if this is what libertarians think, I'm not one. its just that this stuff is... a little hard to swallow.

most of those quotes were takin from extremely reliable sources. have you never heard of TOTO

I'm sorry... was I supposed to know through my psychic powers where these came from?
my bad...

PLEASE WATCH THIS MOVIE TRAILER NOW, AS IT MAY BE A MEDIUM YOU UNDERSTAND MORE THEN CALLING ME A CRACKPOT.

your not a crackpot, a bit of an extremist maybe, but you know how things work, which means your not a crackpot

100 percent of federal income tax goes to pay the national debt

you should be happy for it, without that debt we would all be in shacks on the side of the road

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/americafreedomtofacism/trailer/

fine, I'll do that now

hm... wow, this was actually pretty good.
is it coming out as a movie? I might go see it.

but either way, interesting as it is some of it may be taken out of context. example: the image with the people with the welts and wounds? in nazi germany those would have been metal bullets, not the rubber ones that I'm assuming were used. if that was a mob scene then...

but like i said, depends on context. although its still a rather large step from this to money being illegaly smuggled from fort nox, that I'm pretty sure isnt real.

thanks for the clip !

Actually the rubber bullets are sometimes propelled by high-end explosives in which case they reach speads of about 500 miles/min and can do serious damage to bones and other structures.

i didn't call schem stupid... i know him well enough to not think he's stupid. i think he's pretty smart. he just says some stupid shit sometimes.

schem, if you know what torrents are, that movie can easily be found online. add me to msn at ticksandleeches00@hotmail.com and i will show you the way.

you guys are totally missing the point about taxes. an admendment must be ratified, legally. read up on the 16th admendment, it's an utter fraud. i'm not making this up, it's common knowledge.

schem, you really think it's good for america that a bunch of rich white old bankers are making trillions off of your tax money? how is that good for america? the congress have the constitutional power to shut down the FED. we haven't always had an overwhelming national debt you know, it wasn't untill reagan almost sent us into another great depression...

here's a link for you...

http://zfacts.com/p/461.html

In 1981 the gross national debt, as a percent of the nation's annual income, reached its lowest point since 1931, 32.5%. It could have been paid off then more easily than at any time in the previous 50 years. Despite his professed abhorrence for debt, Reagan instituted unprecedented peacetime deficit spending. (The current Administration's Office of Management and Budget (OMB), in its 2006 Budget, provides a remarkably candid explanation of what happened to the deficit during the Reagan and Bush I administrations).

i didn't call schem stupid... i know him well enough to not think he's stupid. i think he's pretty smart. he just says some stupid shit sometimes

I cant argue that   

Actually the rubber bullets are sometimes propelled by high-end explosives in which case they reach speads of about 500 miles/min and can do serious damage to bones and other structures

but nonetheless are much better than metal bullets

we haven't always had an overwhelming national debt you know, it wasn't untill reagan almost sent us into another great depression...

its true that the national debt is a real pain when its so collosal, but we always need some form of national debt, national debt=good in small amounts

its because it creates a way for the government to be fueled by taking bonds, while paying up ones that are close to, or about to expire

that way our government never really has to pay anyone anything, but we still are technically in "debt"
agh its complicated.

but yes, I agree that Reagan made a dumbass mistake, and we should work on it. and while I'm at it I'll read up on the 16th ammendmant to

I get what your saying debt is a good thing, and we have been in debt for about 100 years since after the civil war, i think. We however did get rid of it during the 80's and 90's and well now we are in debt again in less than ten years we have racked up 6 trillion dollars, kind of disturbing.

As for rubber bullets being better yes they are better than metal bullets, but i would never want to be standing with my back to them, they can break damage your spine and ribs. Which leads to pain unimaginable... but back to topic.

I think the income tax is completly viable, so what if it wasnt completly ratified if you actually read the constitution and follow to word of pen than half the things this country has done have been "illigal". Newer times calls for faster change, if we try to ratify it now it would take years.

We however did get rid of it during the 80's and 90's and well now we are in debt again in less than ten years we have racked up 6 trillion dollars

i don't know where you get your info from m8... but that's completely wrong. the debt was at it's lowest point until the 80s and 90s. the majority of the debt was caused by the reagan and bush 1 administrations. there is nothing to speculate on... this is fact. truman, nixon and kennedy almost completely got rid of the national debt. some would say that the US economy was at one of it's strongest points during these three presidents. lowest national debt and stronger economy... hmmm, see a pattern emerging?

state income tax is completely viable. what you seem to be forgetting or imho ignoring is the fact that none of your fed income taxes are spent on anything but the national debt. none. none on military. none on healthcare. none on highways. none none none. it all goes to pay the debt, and as long as the debt gets bigger, the bankers make more money. not the USA. the bankers. i'm not speculating on any of this. it is fact. clinton had a plan to eliminate the national debt actually. bush 2 came along and destroyed any hope of that happening. if you were to break down the national debt right now per citizen we would all have to pay about 30,000 dollars.

as for the rubber bullets thing.. you guys are missing the point again. what they are trying to convey is the fact that this country is becoming the very police state/facist society that we fought so hard against for the last 100 years. you have the right to protest, only if you don't mind being shot at...

some would say that the US economy was at one of it's strongest points during these three presidents. lowest national debt and stronger economy... hmmm, see a pattern emerging

thats not really true, debt forces an expansion of lower level buisnesses (gasp, its true).
so one could easily argue that debt=good for you, and besides, eliminating the debt would be bad, very very bad. the reason we expanded so easily was because of the national debt, so go back and study hamiltonian philosophy if you want to see why.

becoming the very police state/facist society that we fought so hard against for the last 100 years. you have the right to protest, only if you don't mind being shot at...

like I said, if they were peaceful protestors thats one thing

now, if they are burning cars in the street, or getting riotous thats a complete other.