New surrender conception

Vassal race

If some of you played Alpha Centauri, when you finally have nearly beaten a computer, they told you "We surrender!! We will give you all our credit (3) and all our technology if you sign a blood truce!", and if you accepted, it was always : "All right, but you will have to become my Pact Brother", and then, they would be your VASSAL nation (Oh yhea! less micro-management). I then gave them back all the base I conquered (except those with really strategic importance), some of my technology, and used them as a front or distraction against other players. (if only they had a better AI...)

(And when came planetary council meeting, when I asked them "Vote this", they would answer a sweeeeet "as you wish" )

now, THAT would a great surrender option. The race swear they will follow your orders, and you protect them. They give tribute in return. Automatic-Allies, and they do as you ask. And you don't have to assume their stupid debts/crappy colonies/capitals. Yhea, you could tell them "gimme that, that, and that planet, these ships, etc..", and they would be forced to do so.

Less micro-management, and more realism. Even, if you loose in a war, "surrendering" would not always mean defeat if you surrender to the right guy. You could use their protection to slowly build up, until you try to "free yourself" of your oppressor! Loosing a war would not be the end or the game, and could allow great return!

What do ya think?
26,958 views 37 replies
Reply #1 Top
+1 for this idea, as is.

I prefer this to the current surrender option. Mods, please sticky this.
Reply #2 Top
Great idea +++
Reply #4 Top
Wow! Attention Stardock:Use this idea just as Citizen Cikomyr states.
-Scitech
Reply #5 Top
U cant beat alpha centauri! Its almost a decade old and it still has great ideas that other games haven't applied
Reply #6 Top
The only game that I think can compete with AC is... GalCiv I and II, but they don't have the same advantages..

xcept if SD continues their good work! Take AC's best ideas, put them into GC, and no one could be a match
Reply #7 Top
That is similar to how Europa Universalis handles surrendering.
Reply #8 Top
I think the Civ4 expansion is going to implement vassal states.
Reply #9 Top
I'd love it (I still have Alpha Centuri on my computer ). The only problem I could think of is that the populatioin races on planets aren't kept track of as far as I know (it is in AC and some other games), making giving planets back kind of pointless since you can run them more in line with your "master plan" than a different player. That and, if kept mildly realistic, there might be a chance for the vassal to revolt before their populace gets used to the idea of being in your empire (or their population might overthrow your puppet government and *then* revolt).
At least the AI is excellent though - I always hated having vassals in other games (including AC) since the AI couldn't run anything half as well as I could, so I always tried to conquer totally rather than have the AI diddle about with potentially profitable territories.
Reply #10 Top
Well.. giving back conquered planets cannot be possible anyway, 'cause you either exterminated the population, or you turned them to your side. there are no "resistance" possible...

But.. when an AI is loosing a war to another one.. They swear an oath of loyalty to you, and you protect them. Attacking AI have 2 options: Stop the war, or continue by declaring war to you.

And YOU could surrender to an AI when you are almost crapped out (I love the Altarian Downfall Game Example : Frogstar could have surrendered to the Terran, and still keep playing, trying to overthrow first the Drengin, then the Terrans)
Reply #11 Top
Good idea! You can't beat AC (as long as the game doesnt CTD)! perhaps if your morale/approval/whatever thingy gets too low your vassal states would revolt?
Reply #12 Top
Well, as I see it, if you are on the loosing side of a war, you Vassal state is more likely to revolt than anything else. That's why you have to put THEM on the front, or you'll end up with both an invasion and an insurrection on your hand!
Reply #13 Top
Actually, I've always wondered why you don't get all of the technology and assets of an empire after they've surrendered. You have a chance of getting their tech when you invade their worlds. You sieze their planets. Why not their starships and starbases and whatever remaining technology as well? Would this make you too powerful? Perhaps. But there should be some other tangible benefits beyond having more land to manage.
Reply #14 Top
There simply needs to be more negotiating during wartime. The current surrender option makes sense if the surrendering group expects someone else to be able to defeat their enemies etc, but there is certainly scope for merely subjugating a group. I also enjoy R:TWs protectorates - and it avoids the mystery of where a groups fleets go when they surrender.
Reply #15 Top
While the idea of building the Ur-Quan Hierarchy of Battle Thralls is most appealing (Submit or DIE!), I'm not sure if the idea of a side giving up all its techs is an appropriate one for this game.

If they were to do so, you would be effectively giving players a really good reason to go to war with someone. The path of combat therefore becomes much more appealing. The guy who has infrastructure techs only (or mostly) would be your target, and once you make him submit, you would then have the benefit of all of his research.

Since the Alpha Centauri tech tree is structured very differently (if you're winning militarily, it's highly unlikely that someone has a huge number of techs that you don't because the tech tree is pretty well interwoven among the different techs), this is OK in AC. In GC2, this is not as appropriate.

However, it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to pay you with a tech or two. Perhaps they give you 2 techs when they surrender, then you gain the benifit of tribute (they pay you some sum of credits each turn, as well as a tech every now and then. Like Advanced espionage).

The idea of having vassal states is appealing for GC2. The idea of gaining all of a people's tech, however, is less so.
Reply #16 Top
great idea, could be in a 2.0 patch or expansion pack (since its quite a major change)
i even like that one more then the economy system improvements stated in other posts
Reply #17 Top
Vassal states... I like it
Reply #18 Top
I like this idea. In any case it would be nice to stop the silly surrenders going on right now. I find that most races surrender before even offering peace! They should at least try to get a peace agreement going before they throw all the possesions at some random race. In my opinion they also give up way too fast, often before they have lost anything worth mentioning.
Reply #19 Top
Yep, this would be a lot of fun. It already gives me a kick to see my enemies bitterly admit surrender to my imperial might, how much more satisfying to actually watch the pitiful ruins of their once great civilization pay tribute to their new overlords for the rest of the game. Oh, yeah . . .
Reply #21 Top
A negotiated surrender option would be nice. Actually it would be nice to have a lot more diplomatic options. Different levels of allies, defensive pacts, offensive pacts, etc.
Reply #22 Top
I like it.

Maybe also, if someone surrenders to an ally of yours, thier stuff is divided up (sort of like europe after ww2).
Reply #23 Top
Maybe also, if someone surrenders to an ally of yours, thier stuff is divided up (sort of like europe after ww2).


As someone said, just implimenting the basics of this idea would be a major change. Let's do one thing to start with, and they could improve it later...
Reply #24 Top
Mmm...

That would be a great way to oppress Minor races' ability to generate a lot of money.

You simply destroy most of their military, they surrender to you, and automaticly pay something like 1/2 of their treasury every 10 weeks or so. Or 1/2 of the ships they just built, or 1/2 of their researched techs.

Or all 1/2.

I would like to know what StarDock thinks about the general idea?
Reply #25 Top
Is this idea going to fall into the mist of this forum? To be covered in dust forever, for only the avatars of level 15+ be able to uncover, in a long long future?

We didn't even received acknowledgement from SD. Is it a "Maybe", a "in project" or a "no way"?