Mini Races (Suggestion)

Personally I find the minor races annoying. They can be as strong as a major power but lack character. Might as well be full fledged civs imo!

I remember the original intent of minor races as being races you could exploit to help you attain a level of economy, technical achievement, and power to compete with the major races (the AI also was able to exploit them). The minor races were limited to how far they could expand (only within their initial sector) and travel. I guess too many people thought the minor races were too limited, so theiy became more like major races. I see a "minor races" tab on the foreign diplomacy screen, but have yet to see any. Since we now have 9 major races, could the minor races be a thing of the past? (Perhaps the "minor races" tab is just an artifact of GC1 yet to be eliminated from the game?).

i think minor races should be ok but like they have primitve AI and are not very good at attacking and such they only serve purpose to be exploited and are a good trade partner somtmes... when everyone hates u but the minor race i think, should be severaly limited so they are unable to do certain things HELLO there called Minor races for a reason anyways plus it makes it more like reallife you got 3rd world countries all round that are considered minor countires and ya got Major countries.

remember the original intent of minor races as being races you could exploit to help you attain a level of economy, technical achievement, and power to compete with the major races (the AI also was able to exploit them). The minor races were limited to how far they could expand (only within their initial sector) and travel. I guess too many people thought the minor races were too limited, so theiy became more like major races.

Maybe the restriction should be brought back (if minor races are going to be in) but set to say their start sector and those immediately adjacent to it. That way they can expand a little and become moderately established without breaking into the major league.

Personally, I absolutely adore Minor Races. The way I've always seen it, the Major races have story value -- they are important to the overall flow of the GalCiv universe plot, essentially. The Minor races are everyone else in the galaxy; the miscellaneous unnamed traders, the one-shot episode aliens, the upstarts which want to be important. The biggest problem I've always had is that the Minors just usually...suck, for lack of a better term. Most of them topple over easily, and those that don't are placed initially with the Majors.

Thus, I happen to agree with the initial poster -- I want to see diplomatic relations with Minors, should they be included, to mean something. Either acting as a protector of them or being the leader of a "League of Nonaligned Worlds" of your own. I don't want Minors to instantly be just as good as Majors all the time, but I think there should be in-game options to allow them to be anywhere from cannonfodder to Major Race minus playablity. But that's just me...o.o;

What kind of options? Well, things like:
"Allow Minor Races to invade planets"
"Allow Minor Races to expand to other Sectors"
"Allow Minor Races to build Starbases"
And so on...

In gc1 minor races could almost everyhing a major race could, but they were harder to talk to. A minor in a good start position would sometimes become once the strongest races in the galaxy. My problem with this is that effectively the minors ARE major races, they just cant claim victory and they don't have the graphical niceties like an animated embassador. And they seem to be annoying as hell to handle diplomatically. If thats true what is the point in having minor races, just make them into fully fledged major races and be done with it.

What I'm saying is there should be a clear distinction or none at all.

Honestly, I'd like to see it where the minor races stay, but if they become more powerful than the weakest major, they become a major race. Similarly, I'd like to see the ability to create alliances out of them as per "The league of non-aligned worlds".

maybe you could have a rome total war style protectorate option. no idea how it'd work.

EDIT i suppose that isnt too helpful, but thats why im not a succesful computer games desiegner, i suppose

one of the games i onced played i GC1 i ended having minor race owning half the star map (conquering a couple of majour races ) and im sure when you have that much power u become a majour power by default

one of the games i onced played i GC1 i ended having minor race owning half the star map (conquering a couple of majour races ) and im sure when you have that much power u become a majour power by default

See thats what I'm talking about. A minor race shouldn't be able to do that. When the system allows for minors to do everything a major race can, why not make them all into major races and just have done with it?

I think the minors need to have a more defined place in the game, like an expansion limit to keep the real focus on the major races.

When the system allows for minors to do everything a major race can, why not make them all into major races and just have done with it?

Because that'd require Stardock to pour resources into making 40 or so bland major races rather than nine highly unique majors and tons of cheap minors, lest you want to lose every other feature in the game? Being "minor" doesn't mean one doesn't have the drive to out-expand the "majors" -- think of it like history. At one time, the USA was a Minor country and a breakaway from the mighty Major empire of the British. Yet in the end, the US has surpassed Britain's power.

A better term might be "generic race", in my honest opinion, though it doesn't have the same ring. They're civilizations which are unimportant in the GalCiv universe storywise and thus have little to no premade backstory. They can -- and in my opinion, should -- be able to compete against any Major race if they have the opportunity. Of course, personally, I'd like to see the races divided into "Major", "Generic" [current GC minors], and "Minor" [limited to one system/sector].

Majors would be the storyline races -- the ones important to the background universe. The Terrans, the Drengin, the Yor, etc. ^^

Generics would be unimportant in the scope of the story, in fact more than likely nonexistent, but could or could not be important in the scheme of a sandbox galaxy -- they're, essentially, "everyone else worth mentioning". And they could still serve their place as the "major event" races that appear, like the Fundamentalists or the Nonaligned Worlds.

Minors would be tiny things limited to a single system or sector [depending on map size] with limited capability, but would garner certain bonuses to a civilization depending on how one treated them. For instance, say...well...the Alexians are a minor race? If you choose to enslave them, you garner production bonuses. If you choose to make them a protectorate, they will gather for you tribute and increase your economy. If you choose to peacefully annex or allow them into your civilization, you get a different base bonus of some sort. Like, if the Alexians are randomly distributed a technology bonus at the start, then a peaceful admission would bring about a technology bonus. And you'd also gain a certain morality change if you peacefully annex -- like, say, you're the Saintly Altarians and you peacefully join with the Evil Carinoids, your morality would drop.

...well, I think it'd be interesting, anyway. If all else fails, I think the toggle options I mentioned earlier would probably be the best compromise. [Yes, I did go on a bit of a tangent. Sorry about the inconsistancy in my post's flow.]

My original idea for this topic was to see all the arguments and thoughts of others. I have read through them and am convinced that the follow would satisfy most of you.

-Diplomatic relations should be limited in some ways also. (hence minor race).
-Minor races should be used as slave or trade races (Somthing you can benefit from).
-Minor races should have a cap on how many planets and solor stystems they can conquer (5-10 Planets, depending on map size).
-Minor races should be the quirky entities that pop out of the unexpected in the galaxy. They should be made for laughter or leverage, maybe bold and prideful or fearful of all.

Just some suggestions i would love to see.

Hello,
Just one question...Dont the Major Races start with the same Possessions as minor races?
1 Planet...maybe a ship or two and so on?
If You as a major race have the chance to dominate the Galaxy why not also the minor races?
Of Course diplomatic relations should be possible with thos races too as it is with other major races!

Greetings from a portuguese living in Germany!!

Hello,
Just one question...Dont the Major Races start with the same Possessions as minor races?
1 Planet...maybe a ship or two and so on?
If You as a major race have the chance to dominate the Galaxy why not also the minor races?
Of Course diplomatic relations should be possible with thos races too as it is with other major races!

Greetings from a portuguese living in Germany!!

Being "minor" doesn't mean one doesn't have the drive to out-expand the "majors" -- think of it like history. At one time, the USA was a Minor country and a breakaway from the mighty Major empire of the British

would u still say America was a minor power? i think what alot of people are saying is that minor powers become majour ppowers but are still treated as minor powers (and i think the lack of negotation ends up benefiting the AI)
like most aspects of this game u can look at aspects of the real worlds and import them into games, such as the world has majour powers say america, china, russia and canada --choose by land mass so dont get offended if i don call your country as a power - - and u may then have alot more minor countys like japan and brazil. they are still powers and have influence but wont cause events on such a large scale

would u still say America was a minor power? i think what alot of people are saying is that minor powers become majour ppowers but are still treated as minor powers

And I'd certainly like to hear their suggestions as to how said races would become "Major". As far as I can tell, "Major race" in GC2 means "playable race"...

Minors should only be used as trade partners, on for invasions.
But I see minors as races which havent discovered interstellar travel.
I would like to see their level of advancement (Prehistoric, Ancient, Pre-Industrial, Industrial, Pre-Digital...)
When you think of it, planets evolved for billions of years, but only 100 or so years can mean huge difference.
Diplomatic options should be limited (Sanctions, Embargo, Trade Alliance, Declare War) but there should be some special options like Guarantee Independence, Become Protectorate, Bring to Alliance, Exclusive trading rights...

Either acting as a protector of them or being the leader of a "League of Nonaligned Worlds" of your own.

That is any excellent idea. I like trying to keep the minor races near my territory alive, and it would be great if I had a diplomatic option to warn other races of the consequences of attacking my minor friends.

okay... im a little new... id like to humbly offer an opinion.

i liked the *idea* of the minor races in the first one, but i agree with some of the criticisms. i like the idea for two reasons. there's no reason to think life isn't everywhere, for starters, but that doesn't even mean all "intelligent" life would have the drive to expand on the level the 'major' races do/should. the major races' expansionist personalities are divierse, but also well-explained in the game vis-a-vis elements like political parties. what are some of the reasons a reasonably intelligent race would stay minor?

devotion to the culture, art, etc.
internal strife, lack of organization
minor intelligence
excessive tranditionalism
fear of the unknown
unusually poor resources

im sure there could be more. maybe one way to handle minor races would be to give them a few of their own AIs. they would have familiar limitations - being bound to their home system or planet, limited technology or military might, etc. but in addition, they could be useful in gameplay in their own right. they could be conqered for population, infrastructure and resources. or they could be made into friends, perahps even openly join your empire under the right circumstances (under the more liberal governments, perhaps). and along those lines, i could see secondary diplomacy options being a great addition to the game.

My idea for minor races will be the following, let the minor races be assimilated by the first one who discover them, sort I found you and you become a colony of my empire and you will produce for my empire, maybe one is rich in military resources, another in economical resources, another in research resources or a mix of all of them with different percents in each different minor race.

My opinion is Minor Races stay the way they have been in the original GalCiv, provided a slew of diverse diplomatic options and several exclusive to them as suggested above like become their Guardian or be capable of making them into a semi-puppet whereas their economic growth is additional to your own.

i agree with Yaguer, keep them similar to the way they are now, but add a couple of new diplomacy options

No, assimilate them, they are to be assimilated, muahahahahaha!!!! WE ARE THE BORG, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!

If this thread is any indication, the terms "minor" and "major" are not clearly defined. The "Storyline" versus "Also Ran" distinction is interesting, and can be useful in the context of a story or game... but... I feel it reduces realism, and is not very scientific.

My view of the split defines "major" as unlimited or unrestricted, with access to any action you would expect from a starfaring race, able to spread throughout the galaxy like a plague.

"Minor" would apply to any races that lacks this freedom; in other words, it has some major limitations that place fundamental limits on its accomplishments. A group of experts including scientists, sociologists, and economists could study some members of a race, and declare "This race will ultimately be minor, because..."

Minor races would be interesting if their unique traits (and consequent limitations) were explained. A few possibilities:

1) Unique homeworld chemistry. All planetary life depends on unstable chemical X, which rises continually from the core to maintain a fairly constant atmospheric level. It has a halflife of mere days, and thus cannot be stored for long voyages. The identity of X and how it is created defy even the most brilliant scientists of visiting major races.
Limitations: This race can never colonize another world, even with domes. Depending on the halflife of X, or length of time the race can survive without X, they may be capable of spaceflight, but with maximum range Y.

2) Ancient slave race. These peoples were genetically engineered or modified by a now-forgotten master race. Their genetic data is ingrained with limitations to preclude a slave rebellion. Like a prisoner with a bomb-collar, they must follow the rules or die.
Limitations: Could be various possiblities. For example, must stay within X lightyears of the home star, whose core resonance prevents an autoimmune self-destruct sequence; may do anything EXCEPT use weapons, allowing a peaceful (and defenseless) trading civilization of unlimited size; must obey any command given by any other race; must not engage in diplomacy; must kill all aliens EXCEPT master race on sight; and so forth.

3) Transdimensional Space Phantoms. This race has tinkered in forbidden sciences, and angered beings unknown. Any ship in space, outside of the protective gravity well of a planet or star, faces a high chance (X% per turn) of attack from these space phantoms. There is no defense, and in every case the crew simply vanishes.
Limitations: Race can only colonize high-gravity planets, and has extreme difficulty with space travel and keeping large fleets. They cannot ever really be an offensive threat.

Well, these are just a few possiblities. Dystopic listed a few others:

devotion to the culture, art, etc.
internal strife, lack of organization
minor intelligence
excessive tranditionalism
fear of the unknown
unusually poor resources

In general, reasons for "minor" status, and real limitations (inability to colonize, or spread outside a certain area, or live outside nebulae, or arm warships, and so forth) that render a minor race incapable of majority would be fun, and give minors a clear role. Intermediates (generic races, unlimited like majors but without the personality) might be useful as well, but these are very different from minor races.

I think it could be more fun if minor races had an actual mechanical reason to be minor.

1) Technological blinders. For some reason, one of the technology trees just doesn't work for this race. They can't understand it, even if it's explained to them. They can't buy it. Logisitics, or computing for example.

2) Pacifists. Not a human playing at being a pacifist, but a race that can concieve of violence in only the most abstract terms. (weapons and defenses cost 25% extra to research, soldiers are at 1/10th effectiveness).

3) No colonising instinct. They don't colonise other worlds.

4) Collapse of technological understanding. Either they got their technology from someone else, or they deliberately destroyed their own understanding of technology for religious or cultural reasons. They don't research, they can only buy technologies from others.