adni18 adni18

Hello!

Hello!

WinCustomize is a great school!
Even if the majority of members here are not children any more( they still have a lot to learn!
I have learn a lot of things for 2 years now, thanks to you, thanks to positive or negative comments to authors and of course, thanks to messageboard arguments, they were all very useful, for one who likes to learn!
I must say there is a quallity in WinCustomize MessageBoard, you can't find very easy in a public MB.
There are some exceptions though, from some persons, but that's life, in any activity of life there are always some bad exceptions.

You may ask why I am writing all this now, because I have spend too many hours to read some long threads in the messageboard those last couple days, (you know the language problem for the foreigners) and I want to share my thoughts about what I have read with you.

Some really nice people, both sides, they have lost control when they have try to express their thoughts, both ways.
No harm is made, both sides they have understand well what is going on and they have turn down their tones.
I hope and I wish the tones remain like this.

Why all this happening, this is the important question!
I can tell you my opinion, it is the only thing I have to offer you about this problem.


Reason 1:
In the messageboard, there are some people who like to make fun to others, no matter if their fun hurts the others or they want to be accepted as clever or perfect ones. This gives a wrong and bad impression to many people who may think that this is WC.
(By the way, we must not forget that this is an Intenational site and not all are knowing the English language well, so this may be another reason of missunderstanding and wrong conclusions).

Solution to Reason 1:
The admins who are in general nice persons, (nobody wants to have an admin in his site who sending away the people), when the see a post that it is not well-meaning or it looks like an offence to another person, they must interact with good words and try to make them understand that this is not an acceptable post for a quality MB, even if they find it that it is correct or fun for them, but offensive for another person.
In that way those x persons they will learn to behave them selves and be nice for everyone and the offended ones will feel that at least they are among friendly people and mates.
We are a community, we must help each other.


Reason 2:
Some persons, are giving bad rattings not only for the quallity of a work, but also for who the artist is and this is some times not fair at all, this is for the bad and the good rates too, so the artists, who are always very sensitive, (how can any one be an artist
without sensitivity?), are geting hurt in a certain away.

Solution to the Reason 2:
The ratting system is very good for the admins and their friends, they are happy to see their high rates, so they find no reason to change it. I don't mean here that they don't deserve high rattings because they do, but this is not the point.
The point is, that very few are giving rates and the ratting system rules in WC, this doesn't happen in any other site, there are rates, but not so crucial as here. Some works disappear because of one bad rate which has been given for personal or taste reasons!
The solution is obvious.



Reason 3:
The moderation of wallpapers. I know and you know very well all the story, no need to repeat it here.

Solution to the Reason 3:
Make a new section for the wallpapers, a second one and put there all the wallpapers and let people deside which of them are going to be in the main Wallpaper section. A certain number of downloads will make a wallpaper jumb to the main Wallpapers section, please no rattings. If people like something let them have it!
A decent name for this second walls section must not have in any way an offensive name.
A slogan like:
"We are not moderating your wallpapers, we let you
decide
" is very friendly and no one can complain and give a headache to moderators.

This site is for the people and from the people!

(I know that Stardock pays for the site )

Wow! Did I wrote so many in English?
Yes I did, because I care!

Please, don't shoot the piano man!
64,427 views 165 replies
Reply #26 Top
So few people bother to rate at all I could live with the initial rate you get when you post as long as it was reveiwed when you updated a piece.Heres another idea I just thought of,...you could let logged on member dl count for the first month decide its rating.If you hit 5000 in a month you get a 5 and so on.Would only really work in the first month because thats when a skin does all it best action.that would also encourage people to make a skin more complete before uploading.You would have to restrict major updates until after the evaluation period.Minor updates would be allowed.Those numbers of course would be for windowblinds.
Reply #27 Top
#16 "Only journeymen can rate"

I don't have a head count, but I don't think there are that many journeymen. I can just hear the screams now about "the concentration of power"
Reply #28 Top
The only problem with that would be the time it would take an Admin/Moderator to go over a skin. Yes a wallpaper can be looked over at relatively quickly but a windowblind, cursor and many others would need to be used in order to give a fair rating. The amount of time it would take before skins were put on site would start a whole new issue. Sadly.
Reply #29 Top
Surely Keila, but they do say allow up to 5 days, I suggest they use that time, and I also wouldn't mind to see moderation myself. Any decent Windowblind skin is going to take at least a week to complete, but it's not that hard to change something that's wrong with it. This sadly leads back to the hate mail issue though I'm all for quality over quantity in every library, that's just me though
Reply #30 Top
I wish it only took a week for me to make a WB.
Reply #31 Top
IMHO, I think the rating system has been somewhat fair up to this point. I also believe there are some people that hold rating privilege that shouldn’t be rating at all. I recall one person making a comment on one of my skins and said 'I gave this skin a low rating, but if you change the font color I will give you an 8' That actually struck me funny. Someone holding a rating for ransom
But I think giving rating privileges to people that have been around long enough to be reasonable in they way a design is rated should be the ones rating anything.
Adni does come up with some very good suggestions to solve some of the most debatable issues here.
BTW, Nice to read you again Nikos.

Reply #32 Top
My last one took a week, more often it's 2-3 and sometimes a month or more. But one should never time themselves and even the very best make mistakes or overlook something. It's also impossible to test for everything and often different systems show problems the author is unaware of and\or can't reproduce themselves. If I had a submission that was sent back with a reason for improvement I'd be thankful. That's just me though and it brings up the hatemail issue too.
Reply #33 Top
I wish it only took a week for me to make a WB.


Same here.

I like the idea of the two wallpaper sections as an alternative to the ratings.

Lets say that if after 1 month, a submission hasnt gotten 800 downloads...It is done away with automatically. (Permantly deleted from the (proposed) temporary submissions library) If the submission DOES get more than say 800 d'loads after one month...It moves on to the other wall section permantly. That way, the new submissions section would never have walls older than 1 month, would not have low-quality walls for more than 1 month, and, would not take up very much space.
Reply #34 Top
On my first and only I spent over 200 hours. I had it checked by atleast 6 people and checked on different operatating systems. I wanted it to be the best that I could do.
Reply #35 Top
Permenantly not permantly. (I think)
Reply #36 Top
And that skin is a perfect example of a job well done, I know the one you are talking about.
Reply #38 Top

Some people's only reason for being is to 'bitch and moan'....simply because they can.

Essentially any permutation of rating system, including not having one at all will be grounds for complaint....strangely probably from the same quarter, no matter what path is followed.

In truth, most of this boils down to a hatred for loss of 'exposure', nothing more, nothing less.  Wincustomize.com's global popularity means that anything that may be seen/hosted publicly on the site will be seen/downloaded by very many people, more so than any other potential outlet.

People will rebel or rile against any 'potential' for the 'concealment' of their '15 minutes of fame', whether by peer-imposed gradation [ratings] and/or by Admin 'moderation'.

Now the tricky part of the equation is when you come to realise that this very 'concealment' or imposed filtering could actually be the cause of the site's public popularity.

Then you go on to consider that were the ratings and/or moderation removed, yes, your personal work/s may all be displayed in all their disparate glory, but, perhaps to fewer visitors as the site's appealing content is perhaps diluted with a flood of [for want of a better word] mediocrity.....a case of 'wow, now all my stuff can be seen by all....but where did they 'all' go?'.

Solution/s?

Maybe it is time that ONLY peers were entitled to rate works...maybe only with comment.  I was never overly thrilled by the capacity to 'buy' voting privileges, and would rather see it through community advancement/promotion, or at least qualification through portfolio...to also be a skinner/artist.  Of course this option will not be liked by many, either.

Some form of 'filter' is needed in order to maintain the site's success/popularity with the public end of our community - the user.

Sure, whatever is chosen will annoy/hurt one artist/contributor or another....fact of life...but be absolutely clear about this, the ultimate methodology is NOT aimed at YOU personally...it is not a personal attack on WHY OH EWE.  It is/will be a reasoned and debated solution that pleases 'most'.

Ratings...

WHEN people 'grow up' and treat their use maturely and fairly they work quite well.

Sure there were people who rated their own works [10's, naturally]

Sure people were recruited by others to inflate ratings.

Sure vindictive attacks were made against others through ratings.

None of these is a reason to remove the ratings...only the people posting them, and they know who they are.

Admins/moderators can see these 'trends' and respond appropriately.

Moderation...

Either that is 'strict' as it was, or 'less strict' as it has become, the latter relying on the ratings to filter to the public.  Frogboy for one has been accepting walls at a lower rating which at least may improve diversity and does give the rating public the chance to also critique and perhaps improve the rating, [or not].

I tend to prefer a voting by thumbs...too many pointing down and it won't make it at all.

IF we had a genuinely dedicated band of critics-for-selection [as we do with the moderators now] who come from the non-admin 'sector', who decide what comes and goes then just maybe their 'public' face will be more universally accepted...though somehow I think it's just displacing the butt of vitriol and complaint from the current bunch to a new one...though spreading the 'hurt/hate' might be a plus...

 

OK, so all this is 'PC' [pre coffee] so I'm sure more noses will now be out of joint...but hopefully some will see that those invested with looking after the site and its community DO care, and though it's not always thrashed around on the public board we are all looking at/for solutions....

 

Reply #40 Top
Lets say that if after 1 month, a submission hasnt gotten 800 downloads...It is done away with automatically. (Permantly deleted from the (proposed) temporary submissions library) If the submission DOES get more than say 800 d'loads after one month...It moves on to the other wall section permantly. That way, the new submissions section would never have walls older than 1 month, would not have low-quality walls for more than 1 month, and, would not take up very much space.


Forgot to add...
If you submission does happen to get deleted, it would be accessible only by clicking on your SN and going to Authors Skins.
Reply #41 Top
Event.....'permanently'.... Spell checker
Reply #42 Top
How about having the initial admin rating which would determine whether a wall/skin is visible or not and then in addition a second user rating which would show up on the skin, but would not influence whether the wall/skin is visible or not?
If a wall/skin then gets a real good public rating the admins could review it and improve its rating if needed??

As it is at the moment I do not dare to rate because I believe as a non artist I do not have the right to influence whether a piece of work (and I believe every artist is proud of its work) is shown to the general public or not. I really think this is for the moderators to decide who have years of experience.
Reply #43 Top
My only gripe(today) is the ratings system as it stands now is inherently flawed.It only takes one angry ,disgruntled or just plain mean yahoo to change a works visibility.If a work isnt deemed good enough to show the public,why is it even allowed on the site?
Reply #44 Top
I'm sorry...those numbers I posted about 5000 = a 5 were silly .That would only apply to overall dl's.which I think can still be manipulated.I have no idea what constitutes a decent logged on member dl count.
Reply #45 Top

IR: That's my problem with the rating system too. Right now, one mean person can mess it up.

You have to have a rating system. Getting rid of it isn't an option. Ultimately, this site exists not just for skinners but for users too and without the rating system it becomes too hard for the casual user to just browse through stuff.

Ratings are a part of life. Our software gets unfairly attacked all the time on Download.com. Our programs almost never have above a 7/10 as a result of a handful of people (usually Mac fanatics or Style XP advocates sabotaging them).  But ratings still are important even then.

What people want, ideally, is a rating system that is fair.

I'd be good with a rating system in which only admins/moderators can rate. These are skinners, they are fair, and we can see what each other rates something which helps prevent abuse.

I have seen cases of where even fairly high level people have run around sabotaging the ratings of their peers (you know who you are) but that's fairly rare.

Anyway, whatever rating system we can agree on could be implemented fairly easy. My vote would be that only moderators can rate themes and skins.

Reply #46 Top
I could live with that.
Reply #47 Top
This is all very well, but there is a question I would like to see answered too.

Is it possible that when we decide upon any fantastic solutions that the war will stop?

If we don't agree upon that and we keep fighting later on then a solution doesn't have an effect.

And how about GreenArmani? It would be great if he had a voice again. He doesn't need to come back. Maybe he never will. Let him decide. But if we take away the voice of one disgrunted member then changes are we never succeed.

[Message Edited]
Reply #48 Top
Geez. And I want a spell checker and an automatic grammar editor.
Reply #49 Top
Here's a suggestion for the walls which I made in the other thread:

How about having them completely un-moderated but with a limited life? Say, a wall gets 1000 downloads in a month or it's zapped. That way the walls which are most appreciated by the people who use them remain on the site and the rest get binned.
Reply #50 Top
I mentioned several weeks (or months) ago how I apply ratings. I do this regardless of who the author is.

0 to 3 marks for appearence
0 to 3 marks for useability
0 to 3 marks for skill level
1 mark for something extra-ordinary (very rarely used) assuming the work has already achieved a maximum 9 marks.

I find this enables me to keep a level head when rating someone's work.
[Message Edited]