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Lord Xia
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
+148

Tired of all Enemy Sovs being Assassins

November 16, 2012 2:37:03 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

After many, many hours of gameplay, I have noticed that every single Sov chooses "Path of Assassin".  It's pretty fucking lame and boring.  I assume that the champs and sovs simply pick what ever the first level up perk is on the list, and Assassin is always first.  Would be nice if a better system was developed.  Seems kinda half-assed.  Maybe a sov that starts off with Summoner or Warlock should have path of the Mage?  You guys made a great game, and I hate seeing things like this in it that look like someone didn't try or didn't care about this part of the game.

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Rhaegor
Lord Xia
rvgr
Join Date 10/2012
+6
Reply #1 November 16, 2012 2:42:08 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Agreed. Seeing Porcupine with the Path of the Assassin makes me a sad panda.

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Lord Xia
WarlordAlpha
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #2 November 16, 2012 3:16:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

LOL I have noticed this too and was baffled... Especially when the enemy sov is using a staff with path of the assassin...  just makes me want to facepalm in general.  Sure I have only played 2 games now (got destroyed in the first one) but I did notice that ALL the AI Sovs took assassin

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Lord Xia
KingHobbit
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #3 November 16, 2012 3:20:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


Never, noticed.  Checking tonight in my game.  Even if it is just most of the time, it needs to be fixed.

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Lord Xia
Viperswhip
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 November 16, 2012 3:42:16 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Path of Assassins is very effective for magic damage, it's also of great benefit for melee troops, even if kind of glass cannony. It is, overall, the most useful of all the abilities outside of a specific focus or build.

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Lord Xia
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #5 November 16, 2012 3:48:28 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Well, if they were going to pick one single path to make every single Sov have, I guess it's the best choice.  Overall stupid thing to do though. 

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Lord Xia
dangerlinto
Join Date 10/2011
+3
Reply #6 November 16, 2012 3:55:32 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Could be an algorithm that works poorly on lvl 4. For example, if you told the AI to always on lvl up pick Rares over Uncommons over Commons, and then if there were more than one of those, told it to just pick from the top of the random list, this would be a fine (if simple) algorithm for AI Sovs EXCEPT on lvl 4 where it would always pick Assassin.

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Lord Xia
Lantros
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #7 November 16, 2012 3:58:42 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

What ever the reason is. Queen Penny (for example) with Path of Assassins  doesn´t feel right. For me it doesn´t matter, if it is the best choice or not. When i play a mage sov. i would never choose assassin, although i read it is a good choice for a mage.

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Lord Xia
KingHobbit
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Reply #8 November 16, 2012 4:34:54 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


The game I played with Karavox, went Path of Mage, found the cloak with all the star on it.  50% damage increase to all tactical spells and something else.  Plus all the evokers, Blizzard and Fireball were just unbelievable.  Flame Dart was a one shot kill every time.  For Mage Sov, Path of the Mage is still the best choice.

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Lord Xia
Viperswhip
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #9 November 16, 2012 5:29:56 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Except at higher levels you, and it's labelled as rare, get a chance at a second path. So far I have never had assassin offered to my mages, but I've now had Defender, Governor and Warrior, so it's only a matter of time.

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Lord Xia
Tasunke
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #10 November 16, 2012 6:57:05 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I feel like "Critical Chance" shouldn't be involved with Magic.

If Magic has Critical Hits, I think it should be connected to a separate stat (attached to path of the mage).

----> Hell, Crits could be a reason to really double down on the Spell Mastery even if you have "enough" mastery under normal conditions (ie increasing magical crit change). I'm sure there would be a reasonable way to do it.

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Lord Xia
Cavil
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #11 November 16, 2012 7:21:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Havent noticed what the AI picks but i guess its assasin since Ceresa comes all the way melee with a two handed axe. Personally i dont pick the assasin path very often. On my last game with Relias i went defender and i can say that i love it.

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Lord Xia
SOLOSOL
Join Date 01/2012
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Reply #12 November 16, 2012 10:23:38 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Always I've checked the AI sov and heroes, they were assassins. As far as I remember since 1.0. Can't say I checked all, anyway. Magic and AI still not mixing fine? To say that the best mage is an assassin, may lead to think one or two things about magic

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Lord Xia
rvgr
Join Date 10/2012
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Reply #13 November 17, 2012 10:24:12 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Sovereigns need a <PreferredPath></PreferredPath> entry in their profiles. Let's face it, Porcupine and Ceresa should never be anything other than Magi. Magnar is also better off as a Mage. Markin is best as a Defender... etc. With Champs this doesn't matter as much, since most later champs come already specialized. 

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Lord Xia
rvgr
Join Date 10/2012
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Reply #14 December 18, 2012 10:56:04 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Is this one fixed or at least gonna get fixed?

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Lord Xia
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #15 December 19, 2012 12:04:15 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Paths should be based on sovereign traits, with some random factor.

 

 

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Lord Xia
Rhaegor
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #16 December 19, 2012 1:43:11 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

It is definitely not fixed yet.  Every sov in my current game of 20 sovs is an assassin.  Pretty shoddy if you ask me, especially since this was pointed out long ago.

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Lord Xia
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #17 December 19, 2012 4:25:33 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

You know, it might have been pointed out but I didn't know about it. I always thought it was random, not hard coded to any particular path. 

I'll whine to Derek about changing it.  I'm pretty good at that.

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Lord Xia
Alstein
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Reply #18 December 19, 2012 6:35:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It shouldn't be random.   Why would Ceresa or Procinipee be Warriors for example?

 

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Lord Xia
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #19 December 19, 2012 6:43:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 18
You know, it might have been pointed out but I didn't know about it. I always thought it was random, not hard coded to any particular path. 

I'll whine to Derek about changing it.  I'm pretty good at that.

I hope you give some serious thought to AI champion progression, it is a rather crucial idea that the AI can handle heroes in the current game mechanics.

As Altein said "It shouldn't be random", at least not entirely random, the AI should take a random choice based on current statistics (it shouldn't make heroes with 1 (non fire) or 0 spell paths a path of the mage for example, some random behaviour in an AI is healthy though, so people who play a lot like me can't always predict the move of the AI players.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Lord Xia
cwalters567
Join Date 12/2012
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Reply #20 December 20, 2012 10:49:03 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I second (third? fourth? fifteenth?) the idea that AI sovs should have some sort of choice algorithm when selecting paths so that what they select generally makes logical sense.  

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Lord Xia
Rhaegor
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #21 December 20, 2012 11:11:13 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 18
You know, it might have been pointed out but I didn't know about it. I always thought it was random, not hard coded to any particular path. 

I'll whine to Derek about changing it.  I'm pretty good at that.

 

Glorious, Thank you.

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Lord Xia
Sentinemodo
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #22 December 23, 2012 7:15:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


it shouldn't be random.

and don't whine to Derek about it it is an AI part to select apropriate path of development for champions and sovereings

it's your job Fb, and you're like seven beta releases and two gold releases late with it.

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Lord Xia
dihir
Join Date 10/2012
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Reply #23 December 24, 2012 8:55:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Ideally, the AI would have goals it wants to achieve and obstacles it wants to overcome, and these would add precedence to any relevant options when the AI needs to make choices.

Currently, it does not have anything like that.  And, I suspect, for level up perks, it always picks the first option.

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