Let's Discuss Sions

We need to have a long discussion about changed needed to make the Sion worthwhile.  If you don't know, a Sion is an Empire trainable unit that gains champion abilities as it levels up, but can't learn magic.  Now, that sounds fantastic, like henchmen.  It's not, why?  

 

Problems with Sions:

Cost to build, each Sion takes 100 influence, twice what a Henchman cost.  Unless you are Altar, or have heroics, you will never have enough influence to build more than a few of these though the course of a normal game and influence is far too cost prohibitive to trade for.  

Standard unit weapons and items.  They don't get a champions inventory like a Henchman, they use the same rules as a standard trained unit.  Now, they default to only having a single weapon, but you can "edit" the design in game to give them any standard troop weapon or gear.

They start with the same stats as a single troop, making them incredibly weak.  They have a base of 6 hp.  This exacerbates the next weakness.

They can die like any other trained unit.  Unlike henchmen whom gain injuries when defeated the Sions are dead and gone.  

 

I have had some success with using Sions, but I created them late game in a fortress that started them out at level 5, and now that they gain all their level up bonuses, they started fairly useful.  

 

But the 100 influence cost really needs to come down.  Or make them have injuries and not die.  There has to be some give here, as they are far to expensive to build and use.  I say 30 influence is appropriate.

21,069 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top


I don't play with the scions but the argument that xia presents is a good one and so I will agree with paying less influence for these scions, 30 does sound like a good number.

Reply #2 Top

I set mine to 10 and give them +100Hp. They are still a little costly for the power they can give. I bet they would be great for a governor strategy though.

Reply #3 Top

Since they are a magic tree unlock, shouldn't they cost crystals to train (instead of influence?)

Reply #4 Top

Sions are a cool idea, I would love to use them, but they are so cost prohibitive.  

Reply #5 Top

I have to agree, Sions are overpriced for their abilities. What his Lordship has forgotten to mention, however, is that Sions also cost 100 Gildar, and add 300 turns to the training time. Henchmen increase the training time only by 200.

To make Sions viable, their base HP needs to be increased, while the cost and training time needs to be severely reduced. The proposed cost of 30 Influence seems reasonable. For the rest, I propose a base HP of 10 (like Henchmen) and a training time of 100. Also, Henchmen need to permanently die, if they fall in battle, like they were supposed to.

Reply #6 Top

Yeah, create your own Champions (as Henchmen are) really is too powerful.  It even says in the manual that Henchmen die like normal units, so I think that is what should happen, meaning you have to take care of them or they will be snuffed out.

Reply #7 Top

i was sure i read that sions could be given pieces of equipment, that's the only reason i was interested in them. After going through the research and pain of finally getting one built, i was so disgusted by their lack of an inventory, that i immediately deleted my resoln empire and started an altarian game instead. They just suck, in every way.

Custom inventory is a necessity, MORESO than champion traits. Without the ability to adjust and upgrade their equipment as they grow, nurturing a unit is pretty pointless. Unless it's a bear with maul, or a dragon, or something similarly overpowered, nurturing any non-equipment-using unit is a complete waste of time and effort.

 

henchmen are probably quite overpowered. but sions are worthless and weak

Reply #8 Top

Well, the first thing you have to do with a Sion currently, is when it becomes available, redesign it so you can upgrade it's gear.  And it can become fairly powerful as is, but it's really hard and really not worth it.  Example of end game Sion, right out of the box.  Now this is from a nation that has armorer, lucky, some hp boost from cities, etc, but you can see the Sion would be pretty tough and this is taken the turn it was trained.

 

 

 


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