[Issue] Pedestrians missing in tile editor

I have a 32bit system, so I know pedestrians are disabled. I tried the tile editor last night, and as I had feared pedestrians don't show up there either. Designing tiles becomes a lot less appealing if you can't place people, animals, or monsters..

Is it possible to enable them in the editor? Or better yet, in the game as well (how much memory do you save by disabling them anyway?)

10,114 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top

We save over 200 meg by having them disabled.  I don't think it would be very good for general players to have them create a tile design with pedestrians and then not see them in their game.  And for most people I think we are better off removing the option so they cant turn it on and run into memory issues/crashes rather than giving it to them (even defaulting to disabled with a big disclaimer on it) and having the game crash.

Reply #2 Top

200MB you say?

Pedestrians=0

 

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 1
We save over 200 meg by having them disabled.  I don't think it would be very good for general players to have them create a tile design with pedestrians and then not see them in their game.  And for most people I think we are better off removing the option so they cant turn it on and run into memory issues/crashes rather than giving it to them (even defaulting to disabled with a big disclaimer on it) and having the game crash.
End of Derek's quote

 

Seriously.  ^This is not a very strong case for restricting the user from deciding for themselves: based on the specifics of their system, size of their game, and as we see - whether or not they are designing tiles with the intent of sharing them.  For this game, my 32-bit laptop with a gig of video memory and 4 gigs of ram provides a much more pleasurable gaming experience than any of the beefy machines in my labs.  However the game is actually a lot less fun without those lil people, I cannot stress enough how much immersion and game appeal is lost with their removal. 

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 1
We save over 200 meg by having them disabled.  I don't think it would be very good for general players to have them create a tile design with pedestrians and then not see them in their game.
End of Derek's quote

I doubt general players will bother with creating and implementing tiles. That is more the area of modders. I am thinking of doing a mod that requires quite a few new tiles, and without the pedestrians I can't really finish those (even if only the 64-bit people would get to see them). Besides, you won't run out of memory anytime soon while in the editor will you?

Side note; messing around with the tile editor can be fun, and might even inspire people to start modding. So why not make the editor as fun and easy to use as possible?

Reply #5 Top

Quoting cardinaldirection, reply 3

Quoting Derek Paxton, reply 1We save over 200 meg by having them disabled.  I don't think it would be very good for general players to have them create a tile design with pedestrians and then not see them in their game.  And for most people I think we are better off removing the option so they cant turn it on and run into memory issues/crashes rather than giving it to them (even defaulting to disabled with a big disclaimer on it) and having the game crash.

Seriously.  ^This is not a very strong case for restricting the user from deciding for themselves: based on the specifics of their system, size of their game, and as we see - whether or not they are designing tiles with the intent of sharing them.  For this game, my 32-bit laptop with a gig of video memory and 4 gigs of ram provides a much more pleasurable gaming experience than any of the beefy machines in my labs.  However the game is actually a lot less fun without those lil people, I cannot stress enough how much immersion and game appeal is lost with their removal. 
End of cardinaldirection's quote

Yeah, I hear you.  My first priority is to make the game stable.  If the game ran slower with those options on i would do it.  If it warned you that memory was running low and it would have to hide the pedestrians I would do it.  Its more complicated than it may seem*.  It also doesn't matter how good your 32 bit system is or how much ram it has.  Any single application is still only to access the 32bit limit, you may have 4Gb in your 32bit system, but your apps can't use it (it will make running multiple apps running at once better though).  So the options are to allow 32bit players to turn it on and run into game crashes, or to disable it for those players so the game is stable.  I opted for stability.

I didnt think about sharing the tile designs for other players.  I can see how it would be frustrating for a player to make a tile design with pedestrians and not be able to use it himself, or even test it in the game and see what it would really look like.  But I can see how it would be nice to be able to create them and share them with others.  Being able to put pedestrians in those tiles is pretty cool.  I'll think about it.

 

* extra material at no cost for my fellow nerds: Hiding the pedestrians once the game has started doesnt help because the pedestrians are merged into the tile designs on load.  Even though the editor lets you work with the pieces as seperate blocks, we merge them on load so that we arent drawing/lightning/rotating thousands of different pieces in real time.  With a merged tile design we have 1 3d object to manipulate.  So the memory for that object is already consumed.  For example that memory is being used even if you are in the cloth map, that memory is used even if you never zoom in close enough to see them, having them "hidden" if you are over x amount of memory doesnt help.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 6

* extra material at no cost for my fellow nerds: Hiding the pedestrians once the game has started doesnt help because the pedestrians are merged into the tile designs on load.  Even though the editor lets you work with the pieces as seperate blocks, we merge them on load so that we arent drawing/lightning/rotating thousands of different pieces in real time.  With a merged tile design we have 1 3d object to manipulate.  So the memory for that object is already consumed.  For example that memory is being used even if you are in the cloth map, that memory is used even if you never zoom in close enough to see them, having them "hidden" if you are over x amount of memory doesnt help.
End of Derek's quote

 

Ah, so any FPS drop in longer games is due to additional tiles being added as buildings are constructed and the world is developed.  Honestly, elegant.  One idea would be to default tiles to a static state, only swapping them out with animated ones when zoomed in enough for it to matter.

Reply #7 Top


Even still. 200meg of RAM is not very much when I'm working with 2 gig+. Many are limited to the 2 gigs, so I mention it that way. However, I can run it well past (upto 3.25gig) and do operate with dual core (3gig/3gig) which is better than many 64-bit boxes still sold today. (Win-Xp pro does that and it was released in 2001 XD ).

The real problem 32-bit users are having is that persistant memory leak. After starting the game and as I use it, I just watch the memory climb. Worst I've had it was after 5 hours of game: 2.4gigs (windows still needs some to operate too).

64-bit users don't notice the leak because they have so much extra (wasted :-" ) RAM sitting around. I for one just restart the application every 2-4 hrs (dependant on how much saving/loading/ctrl-Ning I do).

So, by re-adding the little meeples, it means I restart every 2 hrs forsure instead. I am more than willing to live with that. Little meeples are awesome.

Please strongly reconsider adding them back in for 32-bit users.

Thanks

 

Reply #8 Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 8

However, I can run it well past (upto 3.25gig) and do operate with dual core (3gig/3gig) which is better than many 64-bit boxes still sold today. (Win-Xp pro does that and it was released in 2001 ).
 
End of GFireflyE's quote

 

Same here.  It is quite odd that the lil 64-bit tablet over here with an on-board video card has pedestrians, but this relatively beefy laptop doesn't.  I promise that some day I will backup this machine and reformat to Windows 7 or 8, but for us overworked nerds in the mean time...

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 8
Little meeples are awesome.

Please strongly reconsider adding them back in for 32-bit users.

Thanks
End of GFireflyE's quote

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 6

I didnt think about sharing the tile designs for other players.  I can see how it would be frustrating for a player to make a tile design with pedestrians and not be able to use it himself, or even test it in the game and see what it would really look like.  But I can see how it would be nice to be able to create them and share them with others.  Being able to put pedestrians in those tiles is pretty cool.  I'll think about it.
End of Derek's quote

Great, I hope you'll find a way to make this work :thumbsup: