Keeping "Vorastra Dark Fleet" in the game

from Sins Forums

I am talking about the passive ability of Vasari Loyalist Titan, which was ultimately replaced by the "Dark Fleet Beacon"/"Spawn Phase Stabiliser" combo. Those, who messed with Vasari in the pre-0.96 version of the game should know, what i am talking about.

Now going by those threads, dedicated to VLT, lot of people seem to think, that Vorastra Titan is underpowered. Apparently it gets beaten even by the Coronata, which was up until now considered to be the weakest of the lot. Personally, i have only tried it 1on1 vs Ankylon (my Titan was lvl 7, Ankylon lvl 2), and its true, that i could not destroy it whatsoever. Everytime i took it to cca 2000 hp, it activated its repairing abilities and returned to cca 4000. Obviously, the Titans do not have to be the same power, and there are other traits of Vasari Loyalists, which make up for this defficiency. But incase, the buff was indeed in works for the next version, i would suggest following:

-instead of buffing DPS of Vorastra regular weapons, return the "Vorastra Dark Fleet" researchable into the tech-tree. Upon researching, this tech would add another passive ability to the Titan, the same way as it used to be, which would summon several Dark Fleet ships (lets say worth 50 to 100 fleet-supply) for FREE. This would however not happen in some periods, it would be only TRIGGERED by a situation, when the Titan would face destruction (lets say its hull-points would be less than 1000). 

The whole point obviously, would be to throw something at the attacking enemy, to divert his attention from the Titan itself, so you can save its ass somehow, given the fact, that unlike with other races, if you lose this Titan, you may lose entire game. The ability / researchable could be renamed from "Vorastra Dark Fleet" to something along the line "Vorastra Distress Call" and obviously, it would be handy in situations, where you about to lose the Titan, and do not currently either have money for more ships, or all the phase-stabilisers you spawned, are currently in the process of cooldown, so you cant use them to spawn more ships momentarily the other, regular way. Obviously, you would need free fleet-supply for the ability to work.

The main advantage of this solution is that it gives the Titan the needed firepower, when it really needs, its something different than simply buffing its weapons, similarly to Desperation it fits the lore and finally, there is (was) already code for that in the game, it needs to be only slightly adjusted. 

8,096 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I disagree that this would help much.  First off, it removes the titan's ability to create phase nodes.  Also, if you happened to summon carriers, they wouldn't have enough time to generate their SC before the titan would be in a critical condition.

Also, just a number change, at 1000 hull, the Vorastra is doomed.  There's no way a VL is surviving if it hits 1k hull.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I just went on a trip the day after the Beta 3 came out and only had time to start one game as the Vasari Loyalists.  Therefore, I have not even got my hands on their Titan.  I do hope my impression of it is better than yours.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 1
I disagree that this would help much.  First off, it removes the titan's ability to create phase nodes.  Also, if you happened to summon carriers, they wouldn't have enough time to generate their SC before the titan would be in a critical condition.

Also, just a number change, at 1000 hull, the Vorastra is doomed.  There's no way a VL is surviving if it hits 1k hull.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

Obviously, the "Spawn Phase Stabiliser" ability would stay intact. This would be basically fifth ability, as before, when Desperation and Suffusion were separated, but it would be passive and triggered as i suggested, so it would not require any UI buttons, nor could be leveled.

1000 hullpoints was just rough example, as was the 50/100 fleet-supply. Carriers would be obviously never a part of the summoned unit group, rather skirmishers/assailants/HCs/Overseers/Subverters. 

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

Seems to me, whatever you summon in this situation isn't going to distract the player from killing the titan.  If someone gets the titan down to 'critical' health (especially as low as 1000 as Volt said), they're going to commit to finishing the job.  In most cases, this would probably just end up being a weaker sacrificial ability like the ART's ultimate which nobody seems to like much as-is.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Timmaigh, reply 3

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 1I disagree that this would help much.  First off, it removes the titan's ability to create phase nodes.  Also, if you happened to summon carriers, they wouldn't have enough time to generate their SC before the titan would be in a critical condition.

Also, just a number change, at 1000 hull, the Vorastra is doomed.  There's no way a VL is surviving if it hits 1k hull.

Obviously, the "Spawn Phase Stabiliser" ability would stay intact. This would be basically fifth ability, as before, when Desperation and Suffusion were separated, but it would be passive and triggered as i suggested, so it would not require any UI buttons, nor could be leveled.

1000 hullpoints was just rough example, as was the 50/100 fleet-supply. Carriers would be obviously never a part of the summoned unit group, rather skirmishers/assailants/HCs/Overseers/Subverters. 
End of Timmaigh's quote

I didn't realize you meant to stick it back on the fifth ability.  Regardless, I still disagree that it would actually help it.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I just finished a game using the VLT. I never played the vasari before release so I'm not sure how the old ability worked. If it spawned ship from the dark fleet at critical health, but also phased out the titan and completed all cooldowns, it could have a chance to use the maw or in grav phase jump. Just a raw idea without taking specific match ups for balance.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Sakhari, reply 4
Seems to me, whatever you summon in this situation isn't going to distract the player from killing the titan.  If someone gets the titan down to 'critical' health (especially as low as 1000 as Volt said), they're going to commit to finishing the job.  In most cases, this would probably just end up being a weaker sacrificial ability like the ART's ultimate which nobody seems to like much as-is.
End of Sakhari's quote

Well, unlike ART, this would not be ultimate ability, nor would it replace MicroPhaseJump, Desperation or SpawnPhaseStabiliser. This would be something extra, added to the Titan by research, and you would have no control over it like with those 4 regular abilities.

In regard to distracting, critical health, etc.. again, 1000hp was just example. And you seem to forget about MicroPhaseJump, the Titan can make some nice distance between itself and the attackers, but as they are most likely to catch him as it tries to phasejump away, the summoned ships could be handy, fly directly between retreating Titan and enemy ships...

Anyway, this was just an idea to make up for the lower DPS with something, what is already in the game.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Timmaigh, reply 7

Quoting Sakhari, reply 4Seems to me, whatever you summon in this situation isn't going to distract the player from killing the titan.  If someone gets the titan down to 'critical' health (especially as low as 1000 as Volt said), they're going to commit to finishing the job.  In most cases, this would probably just end up being a weaker sacrificial ability like the ART's ultimate which nobody seems to like much as-is.

Well, unlike ART, this would not be ultimate ability, nor would it replace MicroPhaseJump, Desperation or SpawnPhaseStabiliser. This would be something extra, added to the Titan by research, and you would have no control over it like with those 4 regular abilities.

In regard to distracting, critical health, etc.. again, 1000hp was just example. And you seem to forget about MicroPhaseJump, the Titan can make some nice distance between itself and the attackers, but as they are most likely to catch him as it tries to phasejump away, the summoned ships could be handy, fly directly between retreating Titan and enemy ships...

Anyway, this was just an idea to make up for the lower DPS with something, what is already in the game.
End of Timmaigh's quote

Altering mechanics v.s Fixing existing ones. Everything that has been said in other threads is spot on, bad dps, and CD on phase node are the problems with VLT.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Been thinking about this bit more and perhaps it would not have to be triggered by Titans low health, but same as before, it would make handful of smaller ships periodically jump on Titans coordinates for free. Now i realize there is already Spawn Phase Gate Stabiliser ability for this role (which i would not touch). but it makes the Titan kind of dependent on the spawned structure, you move it to next gravwell and you need to wait to spawn another phasegate for moar reinforcements...

other thing, do not have the TEC Rebels basically doubled this very same thing, alternate way of getting ships? I mean you can summon Pirate Mercs from those Broadcast Centers for money, but you get Liberated Resistance units for free as well? Or does the Liberated Resistance now works differently? Have not played TEC Rebels recently.

Bottom line, i think adding this would be nice touch to making things even more unique. Somebody said on other thread he sees Vorastra as Air Force One and i can agree with that. And this would kinda fit that theme, definitely more than improving DPS of its cannons.