[Suggestion] Shard use with spells (per turn)

from Elemental Forums

I mentioned this is my Let's Play video thread but thought it probably should have its own thread. The more I think about it the more I think it will help the game.

The problem

The problem is two-fold. Players want powerful and interesting spells yet as you hit the mid game if you have a lot of one type of elemental shard your spells can become over-powered. It basically means that to balance the game you need to weaken the cumulative effect of shards on spells - which I think is a shame. I would prefer spells where controlling shards is an important strategic consideration.

So the problems are:

1. Shard buffs on spells can over-power the game; leading to

2. To balance the game shard buffs need to be nerfed.

Neither of which is a good situation for the game.

The premise

The basic premise behind the suggestion is that for each game turn, shards are a diminishing resource. As you cast each spell in tactical battles that makes use of a shard it decrements by one until you no longer have a shard bonus. And casting a spell that uses shards on the strategic map uses up all the remaining shard power for that turn. Or perhaps there is a property for spells that dictates if it decrements or negates the shard count for the specific spell usage.

As an example, Lets say you have the Heal spell at 8hp + 4hp per Life shard and you control 3 Life shards. The first time you use the spell it will heal 20hp (8 + 4x3). The next use in that turn it will heal 16hp (8 + 4x2). Then 12hp (8 + 4x1). And finally just 8hp for every other time the spell is used (8 + 4x0).

Now let's consider two different battles in the same turn. If in one battle 2 healing spells are cast, there would then only be one shard left to be used in the next battle.

And if a spell is cast on the Strategic Map then it should use all the remaining shards of it's type if it provides a bonus for the spell.

The benefits

The benefits of this approach is that you can err on the side of over-powering the buffs from shards making the initial spells much more interesting at the start of the turn. Then as they diminish you need to manage their usage. It means you can make high-level strategic choices during each turn in the order of spell-casting and battles without adding at all to the micro-management for the player. Instead of showing 3 Life Shards in the UI, you would show the remaining/total shards; 3/3 Life Shards etc.

It also means that you don't absolutely have to understand the mechanic to cast spells yet the more you understand it the better you can play and plan. Making the mechanic easy to use but difficult to master - which I feel is important and I believe has been an important focus for the changes in FE.

It adds a lot to the strategic choice without complicating things.

 

Thoughts, comments?

2,960 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't particularly like or hate it, but I'm pretty sure it will cause the AI a lot of headache, if not to fail completely with spell casting. The reason is fairly simple, the player basically knows the important battles, and when he needs that maximum shard count, so he'll save his shard count for that battle or spell. The AI? I don't think it will be able to do the same. It'll use it as necessary, and then, when that huge battle finally comes, all it's shard power is drained and it is facing a player with gimped spells. That is, if they ever implement a good spell casting AI.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I like it ..sounds reasonable though is this stretching into mana's territory? I would argue the heal spell itself needs to be reworked..its too easy and make so much sense for a human player to assign one char to just heal every turn..while the AI will never do that. Gotta either get rid of heal or givea version to each type of magic.

It feels to me the problem is not overpowered spells its powerful spells like heal being cast every turn. Perhaps eliminate mana all together and make it so you can only cast the number of spells you have shards? Perhaps have spells that only a sovereign can cast?

 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm not sure I agree with the problem - what's wrong with having some spells super-boosted, after having gone to all the trouble of clearing and securing a shard, sending the pioneer all the way over and then waiting for a long construction period, making sure to guard it if there is any lair nearby? Shards are a core element of the game, in a sense they are your measure of progress more than any other metric. 

Indeed, unbalanced spells are great fun - remember that the third X in 4X games is "exploit"! Against superior odds, you weave your strategies using a strategy adapted to your style and circumstances and exploit the hell out of the AI. In higher difficulties where monsters and AI armies have great bonuses, you need to exploit and superpower as much as possible, otherwise you're dragon fodder :) 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I disagree only because I fail to see it used properly.  Brad and Stardock can and do work miracles with the AI and admittedly if the AI just had dedicated casters that did their assigned role would this idea be needed?  I'd say no.  But definitely worth a write-up if it gets people thinking about the issue.

 

I also disagree with the heal hate and losing of mana system ideas. 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Can we accept suggestions from a man who sets taxes to zero and complains about his negative income ;) 

 

I actually think that the suggested system would work, but I am not sure we need it. Just make the AI able to take number of shards into consideration and abuse it like we players do. :d

 

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting joasoze, reply 5
Can we accept suggestions from a man who sets taxes to zero and complains about his negative income 
End of joasoze's quote

Ouch! Now that's nasty! Lol :D