Helping the AI - These unbalanced things need to go!

There are some talents and things that are making life way too hard for the AI. Removing or reducing a few things would make it so the AI wasn't such a pushover. Please list the things in this thread you feel are making it too easy to beat the AI. What I think needs to go:

 

 

The organized sovereign talent. It needs to go immediately. Also Teleport. This spell needs to cost a lot more. I would say at least 15 mana, but maybe it should even be 25. Right now if I see a threat I simply teleport to my main garrison and then load up my huge army and teleport to the threat. SO EASY. imo teleport is the strongest spell in the game. It should either only work on the caster, or if it works on caster's whole army it should be a level 9 spell with much high cost.

18,801 views 26 replies
Reply #1 Top

Well, I too think a few of the spells are kind of powerfull for their price/level (raise and lower land should probably be level 8-9 or something considering that they can make strategic terrain decisions pointless). However I think once the AI actually starts using these things more actively, they will be putting up much more of a fight. The problem now doesn't seem to be so much that the abilities are there, but rather that the AI isn't using them. I'm looking forward to seeing what Brad can do with the AI in the coming months.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting DRavisher, reply 1
The problem now doesn't seem to be so much that the abilities are there, but rather that the AI isn't using them.
End of DRavisher's quote

 

Perhaps, but since the enemy sovs are premade, most of them do not have organized talent. That talent alone gives a huge advantage in army mobility. Too huge imo.

Reply #3 Top

Oh god no. Don't even think about further reducing the game's spell / ability list. The AI is a pushover right now because they (tactically) just charge after one unit and because (strategically) they just sit around waiting to be conquered.

Reply #4 Top

The teleport spell should be sov only, it doesn't seem right that you can just jump your SoD around, seems to remove almost all strategy from the game really.

Reply #5 Top

no the ai does go on the offensive sometimes. what is really overpowered too and needs to go are multiple rings/amulets

i conquered the qhole map i a couple of turns with my sovereign at 4000+ combat rating :)

 

 

i rather like the organized talent, imho it should stay. teleport should only work on the cast, i agree. though there should be more kinds of teleport spells later that allow to take your army with you and even teleport outside you territory (although with a limited range).

Reply #6 Top

Quoting shadowtongue, reply 4
The teleport spell should be sov only, it doesn't seem right that you can just jump your SoD around, seems to remove almost all strategy from the game really.
End of shadowtongue's quote

 

Yeah - it should be one of those 'game ender' spells the way it is now. Require 30 mana and one of each shard or something to tp your whole army. makes things just way too easy.

Reply #7 Top

Teleport is a great spell, one of the only one's I use regularly. Last night I noticed that on the level 8 spell list there is a teleport group spell, or somthing to that affect. It suggested to me that the level 1 teleport spell was always intended to be caster only and is currently bugged.

Reply #8 Top

I've gotten all my tech levels up to 11 and 12 and I still haven't seen nor used the teleport spell yet. Am I missing something?

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Raven, reply 8
I've gotten all my tech levels up to 11 and 12 and I still haven't seen nor used the teleport spell yet. Am I missing something?
End of Raven's quote

The one game I've played - I started with the spell from the start. So I'm guessing bug.

Reply #10 Top

kingdoms start with the spell, empires have to go to lvl 3 spell research also it has a different name for empires but same functionality.

Reply #11 Top

afaik, the vanilla level 1 teleport is supposed to be sov only, considering there is a much higher level ;teleport group; spell.

Reply #12 Top

Empires get the blink spell instead of teleport.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Cikulisu, reply 11
afaik, the vanilla level 1 teleport is supposed to be sov only, considering there is a much higher level ;teleport group; spell.
End of Cikulisu's quote

 

The starting teleport spells teleports the sovereign's stack. I believe the higher level spell teleports a stack to the caster.  Could be wrong, though.

Reply #14 Top

Teleporting group to your (or any location) is just teleporting to the group, and then teleporting back. It costs 10 mana and is available at level 1. 

 

I have no problem with spell-casters having teleport to begin with, but it should be limited to either only the hero, or possible a limited number of people (so no big stacks of armies).

Reply #15 Top

I remember in the beta at least that there was a separate teleport (teleport other??) spell that said it affected the whole army.

I agree strongly that the Teleport spell should just affect the Sov himself (so he can for example escape from certain death in the early game if you overextend).

And then later on you can get a higher level spell (with higher mana cost) that teleports the whole army.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting cwg009, reply 12
Empires get the blink spell instead of teleport.
End of cwg009's quote
The spell's called Spirit Dance but yeah, you can only learn it later on.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Carewolf, reply 14
Teleporting group to your (or any location) is just teleporting to the group, and then teleporting back. It costs 10 mana and is available at level 1.
End of Carewolf's quote

The only problem being the "only in friendly territory" restriction - odds are the group you want to move and the destination aren't both within friendly territory. But is the higher level group teleport any better? Have never bothered with it myself, does it still have the friendly territory restriction or is avoiding that restriction the advantage of getting it?

Anyway that aside, the basic teleport definitely should be sovereign only, or perhaps entire army but you can only go to capital, not anywhere in friendly territory - a more limited form somehow. It's just too good for its availability and cost, a spell that flexible and useful should take more mana and be higher in the magic tree.

Reply #18 Top

Quoting tesb, reply 5
no the ai does go on the offensive sometimes. what is really overpowered too and needs to go are multiple rings/amulets

i conquered the qhole map i a couple of turns with my sovereign at 4000+ combat rating 

 

 

End of tesb's quote

If you're going to cheat then you have no reason to complain about the ai.

Reply #19 Top

One possible easy nerf could be to only allow teleporting single individuals with the basic version. That still allows a small group of escorts in the early game, but no teleporting the more powerful army or multiple-soldier groups. Still 9 people is powerful, but not game breaking late in the game.

 

This would effectively nerf both teleports and the Logitistics tech, but only a little. This might not be enough for proper balance, but it would be an easy first step.

Reply #20 Top

Well, I self impose rules, 2 rings, 1 amulet, it's not that complicated. I also don't use the teleport spell at all, ever. If you feel it is OPed then don't use it, pretty simple. The AI does attack, if you look at it, but the con spawn is so frequent the AIs armies get waylaid on their way to attack you, I've watched it happen dozens of times. Those stacks of shrills or a few dragons and the like make short work of the stacks the AI tends to put together.

Reply #21 Top

If you're going to cheat then you have no reason to complain about the ai.
End of quote

 

It's not cheating if the game mechanics allow you to do it. How many new players have built more than one merchant, more than one library, or more than one of any other building that you are only supposed to be able to build one of and not realized it? Are they suddenly cheaters for doing it? No. It's a bug, and they probably didn't realize it was a bug. They just clicked the building and built it and then built another one without realizing they were supposed to be limited to one. If the game allows it, you cannot really call it cheating. You might call it a bug. But it is working exactly as it was designed. They drastically nerfed all the items to make it more difficult to make over powered units, but until they change the mechanic, it's not cheating (and right now, it's not even a bug unless you hear a dev say it's not working the way the intended).

I, for one, don't have a problem with the way it works right now. For the costs involved for me to pump one unit up like that, I could have had an entire army of units doing the same kind of damage or even better and not had all my eggs in one basket.

 

The AI does attack, if you look at it, but the con spawn is so frequent the AIs armies get waylaid on their way to attack you, I've watched it happen dozens of times. Those stacks of shrills or a few dragons and the like make short work of the stacks the AI tends to put together.
End of quote

Turn down the map difficulty so the MOBs are not quite so powerful and put AI on each opponent on challenging and the AI will do much better. 

 

Reply #22 Top

Here's a funny idea - if you think a spell or talent is unbalanced, how about not using it?

Reply #23 Top

So you are suggesting not playing the game as an alternative to improving it? I kinda like the game, and I guess the others do to which is why we are suggesting ways to make it better rather than "not playing". 

Reply #24 Top

Quoting rossanderson48, reply 18
Quoting tesb, reply 5no the ai does go on the offensive sometimes. what is really overpowered too and needs to go are multiple rings/amulets

i conquered the qhole map i a couple of turns with my sovereign at 4000+ combat rating 

 

 



If you're going to cheat then you have no reason to complain about the ai.
End of rossanderson48's quote

 

i did not cheat at all, i just put all my money into my sovereign instead of an army, he was my army. it is those stupid game mechanics that allows to stack rings and amulets. i would have been able to do much of the same since i researched arcane armor very early i had a sovereign with the best armor and weapons by turn ~40. there is nor army in that time frame that could have competed with me.

Reply #25 Top

Removing organized and teleport won't make the AI better. The I played a 600 turn game where all I built were 2 cities and their improvements and the AI did absolutely nothing of worth aside from building legions of unarmored spearmen.

 

Teaching the AI to make use of organized and teleport will make it better but we can't do anything like that.