To the Team

Normally I want games in a complete, finished state.  I rarely accept the explanation that it will be polished in months and years ahead b/c I count every dollar (on a strict budget) and want bang for my buck.

I'm over 40.  I've never (never!) paid for a special collector's edition as I usually find them to have a few meaningless bells and whistles that soon head out to the garage or trash.

With Elemental I broke both rules.  Why?  Because I have Twilight of the Arnor and play it ... alot.  Because the level that Brad and the team talk to us here at these forums seem almost unprecedented in some ways.

I bought the CE of Elemental merely to send more dollars to Stardock.  They are one of the few (only?) that are producing TBS games that have an AI and an experience that actually challenges.  

I am willing to wade through updates and months b/c I am willing to trust that Brad and the team are worth that trust.

I know this sounds sappy... and feel free to say "big deal" (cue violin).... but it is rare in today's world of consumerism and insta-satisfaction to feel a bit of a bond to a company.... but I feel one with Stardock.  The last time I felt this way was this Troika who released Temple of Elemental Evil and Arcanum and Vampire:Bloodlines - games I still play but which were all released a bit... er.... buggy (as in July at noon in the sun in the Amazon with no repellant on)

So, after a few days that might have felt rough for all of you - I hope you know that you are making a game that shows your love for the genre.  I'm eager to see what it becomes.  I'm not playing a ton right now, spending more time lurking the forums, but I know 100s of hours await me in the near future and the wait, because of each of you and your commitment, is well worth it.

 

J

6,506 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

Well said. I hope this helps motivate someone to improve this.

Reply #2 Top

Game is currently unplayable since the AI is totally fucked up. Why would I pay for an unplayable game?

Once the critical problems are all sorted out, I guess the game will be worth purchasing. Right now it isn't.

Reply #3 Top

Right on. Warhammer: Mark of Chaos was pretty much unplayably bad on release, and there was a desperate cry for improvement on the forums. Official response never came and eventually the cries vanished leaving empty echoing forums.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting zarq42, reply 2
Game is currently unplayable since the AI is totally fucked up. Why would I pay for an unplayable game?

Once the critical problems are all sorted out, I guess the game will be worth purchasing. Right now it isn't.
End of zarq42's quote

 

I have ran into a few bugs, but unplayable?

 

Little dramatic, no?

 

Have you even played it?

Reply #5 Top

I agree with the OP 100%.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting govtmule1124, reply 4



Quoting zarq42,
reply 2
Game is currently unplayable since the AI is totally fucked up. Why would I pay for an unplayable game?

Once the critical problems are all sorted out, I guess the game will be worth purchasing. Right now it isn't.


 

I have ran into a few bugs, but unplayable?

 

Little dramatic, no?

 

Have you even played it?
End of govtmule1124's quote

Played 3 games so far: 1st one with 4 AIs all on "challenging". 2nd one with 7 AIs on "Hard". 3rd one with 7 AIs on "Extreme" (finished that one 2 hours ago).
In all of those the AI was ridiculously dumb. It's simply not there. After 70 turns most of the opponents didn't even expand past the 1st city, and they all had very very small armies. Kinda wiped the floor with them in all of my games after 150-200 turns. The AI in this game simply does not exist.

And yeah, I'm fully patched.

Reply #8 Top

Funny, my past few games I've had the AI build several cities, including one particularly prolific Gilden which managed to grow to ten. And that's on the beginner setting.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting zarq42, reply 7



Played 3 games so far: 1st one with 4 AIs all on "challenging". 2nd one with 7 AIs on "Hard". 3rd one with 7 AIs on "Extreme" (finished that one 2 hours ago).
In all of those the AI was ridiculously dumb. It's simply not there. After 70 turns most of the opponents didn't even expand past the 1st city, and they all had very very small armies. Kinda wiped the floor with them in all of my games after 150-200 turns. The AI in this game simply does not exist.

And yeah, I'm fully patched.
End of zarq42's quote

 

Right on. I appreciate you not getting pissy.

 

I have not tried to win a game yet, still trying to figure out what everything does.

 

So, do you think the game would be better against human opponents? Is, in your opinion,  the mechanics and concept broken or is it just dumb AI?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Reply #10 Top

The dumb AI is the game's biggest problem right now. Obviously human opponents will diminish this problem, but usually most gamers don't play 4X games for their MP component (since each game takes hours to finish). AI is one of the most important things in 4X games, and in its current state it's really really bad.

Beyond that, I also feel the gameplay itself is not very deep, compared to some other 4X titles like Civ or SMAC. There are too few city improvements, too many blank and featureless tiles. The whole city management aspect is seriously lacking and is way too shallow imo.

Reply #11 Top

I too fell that you need more control over your cities. I am hoping it comes in time. I never purchased a TBS game on opening day before, tons of MMO's over the years though, and you know how they are at launch.

Reply #12 Top

The AI needs some work, but with the current system i don't see multiplayer being much fun, sov snipeing anyone?

Reply #13 Top

I've been a Stardock customer for just two days and I feel a bit of a bond too. :)

Also, the game is great.

I stayed up late last night (ONE MORE TURN!!!!), and I'm here posting before going to work.

There are definitely some MOM vibes, and more. Never thought I'd see the day, I mean, I'm 34 and I've seen games pass by.

Still need to learn alot about mechanics, strategies and all, but I repeat: there's no telling how great this game can be with more work and expansions.

 

Reply #14 Top

I love this game to. Its just MY type of game, seriously addicting gameplay. Its perfect for me to be honest. Sure there are a few issues but man this is a great game here we have.

To think I wasnt going to get this game right away to... so glad I got it  :blush:

Reply #15 Top

Quoting zarq42, reply 7
Played 3 games so far: 1st one with 4 AIs all on "challenging". 2nd one with 7 AIs on "Hard". 3rd one with 7 AIs on "Extreme" (finished that one 2 hours ago).
In all of those the AI was ridiculously dumb. It's simply not there. After 70 turns most of the opponents didn't even expand past the 1st city, and they all had very very small armies. Kinda wiped the floor with them in all of my games after 150-200 turns. The AI in this game simply does not exist.

And yeah, I'm fully patched.
End of zarq42's quote

I wish I had something closer to your experience.  About 100 turns into my games I'm attacked by one of the fallen empires (doesn't matter which one(s) are in the game, they find me) and crushed by armies much bigger than I can field.  I can't collect enough resources, I can't afford to recruit all (or even many of) the heroes who walk by, and I can't get my cities to grow fast enough to justify building new ones.

My last game, I had four cities 70 turns into the game when an enemy showed up out of nowhere with an army of parties of guys with maces and killed my concentrated army (all but two peasants in other cities) in my forward-most city.  My best unit was using oak spears, since that game I couldn't find any metal to mine.  My stone giant and blizzard killed off most of the enemy, but he had some guy in the backfield who was casting an unknown spell for 10 damage per round to all my units.  (No graphics on that spell, or I'd take a stab at describing it.)  Also, his sovereign wasn't there, so I have to assume he had other armies of equal or greater combat rating.  It was ~250 to 150 in his favor at the start of that combat.

After hearing your description, I wonder if the AI is simply turned off on your machine, the way some people's GPUs are not being used...  Or if 70 turns into the game I should have expanded beyond 4 cities and level 4 spells.  Or is the problem that while I'm trying to play on Novice difficulty, and you're trying to play on challenging difficulty, we're actually playing on the opposite due to some sort of bug in the difficulty switches?  Something to try anyway.

Reply #16 Top

Fully agreed with OP.

I have to play with cloth-map only, even though I have a very high-end PC, and I can pretty much walk over the AI. But I just love the game. The features are so rich. And city management gets a really, really big thumbs up from me.

If this was released from a game company that switched their team to a new project on release day, I would be really disappointed. But not here. Stardock and Kerberos (Sword of the Stars) are companies that keep supporting their games for such a long time that I'm not even worried. The game is getting better every day and I believe it will be a true gem in the future.

I actually thought the release would be worse...