Ok, I'm in a bad position, but I have a plan. How can I make this work?

 

Okay, so it's me (yellow, TEC) and two  other guys (dark blue, Advent, and red, Vasari) playing against 4 hard AI. Due to a crappy strategic location, I got two massive enemy fleets chewing on my ends, so I went from 4 planets down to 1 last stand. To add to the bad location, there are absolutely no crystal asteroids besides the one on my home planet near me. I've decided that a last stand would be pointless, as I don't have the funds necessary to wage a war. So, I have taken a different approach.

I will begin by deleting my logistic structures and replacing them all with civilian research. Then, I will research wormhole colonization. You can see that my fleet is at my home planet, but part of red's fleet is too. So, I will amass all my forces, including colony ships + capital ship with colonize ability, then I will take the journey to the wormhole. I will not stop to fight anyone, just to get to the wormhole as fast as I can. Meanwhile, red's fleet will try to keep my last planet alive for as long as possible.

When my fleet reaches the wormhole, we will use it to get to the other side of the system, near my allies. At this point, dark blue will abandon four of his planets near red, which my fleet will colonize and move my capital planet to. Then, with allies on both my flanks, I will harvest resources, build a fleet, and go from there.

Can this work? Any tips on how to increase my chances of victory?

10,774 views 17 replies
Reply #1 Top

You didn't write what kind of fleet do you have and what kind of fleet enemies have. You didn't even mention which expansion are you playing.....

If you play entrenchment or diplomacy I suggest you hole up on your hw. Build sb with repair and some hangars with flak upgrade. Build all this near sb. Build some hoshikas repair as well. Do all this while your allies feed you to upgrade to max your sb and your fleet. You could try to sneak allied vasari sb to your hw planet as well.

AI is stupid and if you can survive their attack (I don't think that ai on hard attack in tandem) If they attack 2 at the time and you have all defenses ready and fully upgraded sb + some of fleet to speed up enemy fleet kill + repair it Make sure though you do have some bombers and fighters to deal with ais cap ships and bombers. you should survive.

AI tends to retreat once he looses his cap ships or at least stop attacking and get his fleet together when new caps come in gravity well. While hes regrouping you can pluck at his fleet..... 

Reply #2 Top

I'm spamming javelis frigates, and playing on entrenchment. I don't think I can defend since my allies are also low on resources. We are getting owned by the enemy AI, and with two massive enemy fleets on my borders I don't think I can attack him. With only 3 metal asteroids and no crystal, I just don't have the resources necessary to build + upgrade a starbase or to create a large fleet.

 

The problem with this AI is that he doesn't have many capital ships, only 2 or 3, and usually not with his main fleet. Then, he constantly sends reinforcements during a battle. Also, when I attack blue's fleet, purple's fleet start attacking my empire.

Reply #3 Top

Such things have been done before when people get stuck in a suicide position, but usually without the wormhole bit (they usually put a starbase on their homeworld as well, instead of researching that tech). Is there really no way to get to your allies lines without using the wormhole?

Reply #4 Top

I might get to my allies, but only with really heavy losses. I'd have to cut right through several enemy planets. Dozens of mines, starbases, phase jump inhibators, and bomber attacks will prolong my journey. The wormhole will serve as a shortcut.

Reply #5 Top

it would probably work if you colonized a ew planet fast enough, mines and starbases are usually pretty easy to avoid

Reply #6 Top

If your allies are low on resources and you are fighting 2 ais then its probably gg

Reply #7 Top

Update: The plan worked, I got 3 new planets near my allies. However, we are still fighting three hard AI's with no resources. Ideas everyone? I'm TEC, what should I invest in?

Reply #8 Top

i would try to get a fully upgraded starbase even if the resrouces take a while to accumulate, the ai does poorly against them

Reply #9 Top

Well if you are just facing the AI your allies can just starbase their border worlds and be pretty safe lol (and if you really think one starbase isn't enough you can always build a constructor yourself on their planets so the AI has to go through 2 starbases). Now actually winning the game will take a while. Your Vasari guy is going to need to invest in subverters, so if he doesn't have a decent number of planets you should help him get some more. As the TEC you should provide the majority of the DPS, so get a lot of LRMs and HCs/Carriers with some Hoskikos and take out the AIs capitals quick. The Advent has the best tanking ability and the best culture bonus so if you need a fleet to defend your part of the map (you shouldn't if you starbased properly), use his. Otherwise make sure he brings a Progenitor to keep your fleets shields up while most of the rest of his fleet should probably be made up of carriers to give you air superiority. Then just try to advance (it will probably take a while with four) and go for the closest enemy homeworld you can.

Reply #10 Top

I don't think starbases are a good option. We are very low on resources, and the enemy has fleets upwards of 1500 supply. A starbase wouldn't stand very long against a fleet that size. Our main enemy fleet has very few capital ships.

I've strayed away from LRM's. Early game, I LRM spammed but I was constantly losing them since they were so easy to kill. It turned out to be a very expensive mistake early game.

Also, what do subverters do?

Reply #11 Top

May I ask if this is a one-star map? If it isn't, you could rush for another system and colonize the planets there, then set up SB defense at that star, build up your fleet and attack, if it's NOT, then I suggest making a decisive stand, lure in their fleets and crsh them, then steamroll them b4 they can rebuild their fleets.

Using Garda's to soak damage while also having Percherons and LRM's is one of my fave early game tactics, however you'll need to manually tell them to attack ships, and turn off Auto-Attack for Hoshiko's.  Make sure that your Akkan has the passive ability that increases range and accuracy to get the first shots off and increase your Garda's fighting potential (all other units have accuracy of 100% but flak units) Spreading your culture into their territory will help you regenerate Anti Matter so your Akkan's Ion Bolt can stun their caps for longer, and maybe even using the Akkans' Ultimate (Forget it's name) to save your ships, then Kite w/ your Akkan and Carriers AWAY from the enemy fleet so your SC can rape enemy ships while they can't fire on yours (Fighters and flak will, however, still fire at ur bombers) Building a Marza or a Dunov to provide heavy fire and support for your fleet would also be a good idea, Dunov gets either Magnetize or Shield Restore, depending on the enemy fleet, and the Marza should get Radiation Bomb (Only build either ONE or the OTHER, the Marza will eat up smaller ships, especially with Incendiary Shells and Radiation Bomb stacking damage, however RB is expensive, the Dunov will disable enemy SC w/ Magnetize, or Keep another friendly cap alive for much longer w/ Shield Restore) Auto-Manage your Caps abilities, the AI sux at using Cap abilities, save for Hoshiko's repair, just keep them close to the front. In essence, your fleet should look like the below while fighting:

LRMS
LRMS------CAPSHIPS/CARRIERS---HOSHIKOS/GARDAS/COBALTS
LRMS------CAPSHIPS/CARRIERS---HOSHIKOS/GARDAS/COBALTS
LRMS------CAPSHIPS/CARRIERS---HOSHIKOS/GARDAS/COBALTS
LRMS------CAPSHIPS/CARRIERS---HOSHIKOS/GARDAS/COBALTS
LRMS

The Garda's should rush enemy LRF's, the Cobalt's enemy Carriers, the LRM"s should target support/cap ships and the Cap ships should just eat up the fleet overall. (Pressing ALT while selecting a ship in the Empire Tree will select all ships of the same type in that Grav Well, helps out alot in large scale battles) If you're feeling really gutsy, you could Pilot the Akkan/Dunov's right into enemy lines, allowing both sides to fire on enemy ships, maxing out damage.

Any other Cap ships or capable research you have? If you can make Cielo's and Kodiaks, go for it, if you have other caps, tell me and I'll put them into the strat.

Xer0 \^/

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Arsekick, reply 10
I don't think starbases are a good option. We are very low on resources, and the enemy has fleets upwards of 1500 supply. A starbase wouldn't stand very long against a fleet that size. Our main enemy fleet has very few capital ships.

I've strayed away from LRM's. Early game, I LRM spammed but I was constantly losing them since they were so easy to kill. It turned out to be a very expensive mistake early game.

Also, what do subverters do?
End of Arsekick's quote

Then you clearly aren't using them right. Fully upgrade (health and weapons, with mass disorientation and meteorites for advent) and surrounded with a lot of repair bays and hangars, the AI will just suicide their fleets on them. If they do send that many your own fleet should be around the starbase to help out, and if several AI send their fleets to the same planet, you may need to have one of your allies build a second starbase to help out. Of course as TEC you could just build one starbase with safety protocol override and when the entire enemy fleet gets near blow it up and kill all of them in one blow.

LRMs are the main damage deals for everything but advent. They are easy to destroy but you can build lots of them. You don't always want to spam them, especially if your enemy has a lot of carriers, but really they deserve their reputation as the most valuable unit. Are you sure you weren't just severely outnumbered and that is why you lost?

Subverters, with their researched ability, are a powerful support cruiser that can disable entire fleets with their distortion field ability. It is an area of effect ability that disables weapons and movement of all nearby enemy frigates. It is a signature Vasari weapon, especially against the AI who keeps their fleets nice and close together. It requires 6 military labs to get that ability though.

 

Reply #13 Top

Fully upgraded vasari sb with 15 overseers that have tier 3 anti mater researched can withstand anything even vicious AI throws at it. That is other than ogrow spam but as i remember hard ai doesn't spam ships. 

You guys can always use advent sb with culture to take planets and once he cannot build on nearby planets pick structures off and then fleet. 

But I do think SB is a way to go. Let me explain. If you can defend SB you won't loose any or little ships that converts in small expenses to replace your ships. If you go to build ships eventually you will need to make your fleet bigger and with that comes fleet tax. So even less resources for you and your team. Another thing is that Ai is stupid and will fight wherever you want him to.

So you can fight near star base that can deal a lot of damage compared to same amount of resources spend on ships and hell you can make him fight near 3 sb if you guys have a choke point. And with advent spin and meteor shower that combination is unbeatable for 3 vicious allied ais. Another thing to consider is that with sb you can afford to retreat your ships (especially cap ships) and repair them elsewhere. That way you can lvl your caps to lvl 10 and as tec you can easily get missile barrage on your 2 marzas that you will need. After that is gg for ais. 

When your defenses are holding invest in aircraft carriers and put bombers on it. AI at least hard doesn't know how to effectively defend against them and mines he is spamming don't effect them since they don't need to move......  If you still can beat him just wait until he suicides his fleet on your sb and then counter attack. 

Another suggestion is that vasari player on your team researches cap ship resource collection ability. (don't know the name) that gives resources to him whenever enemy ship is destroyed in well that his ships are in. 

Reply #14 Top

Another thing is I wouldn't invest in LRMs at all.

Use strength and weaknesses of your races.

Assailants are killer LRMs that are especially deadly against enemy cap ships so are vasari bombers which use same weapon (research phase missile upgrade) Vasari also has best support ships in the game overseers to heal allied ships and subverters with ability to disable whole enemy fleets (you do need to do research after actual ship research to get it). 

Advent has guardians with repulse which if you micromanage can keep enemy fleet away from yours forever. Throw 2 progen cap ship with malice and shield restore into the mix and 1 ore 2 carrier caps with repel strike craft ability.

Tec has hoshikas with disable weapons ability, cielo command cruisers and kodiaks and of course marzas with misile barrage and as you sketched your map above you do have a choke point right on that planet near wormhole so defend there.

And with proper micro management even best players online would have problems with this fleet composition.

Reply #15 Top

Meh, it's the AI, get a bunch of Dunov's and do capship support for your allies.  Sticking two on each allied fleet will make their capships damn near invincible, the AI can't kill for shit when you're restoring shields.  Dunovs also make for invincible starbases too.  The AI really can't kill for shit when a starbase is nuking it.

 

The AI doesn't handle shield restoration very well at all, use that weakness and go for invincibility till you stop being broke.  A capship fleet is a seriously stupid move against another person, but not against the AI.  When you're in the most fortunate position to combine shield restore with shield regeneration and guardian spam, you might as well be god as far as the AI is concerned, even with ten to one fleet points it's going to lose attacking a starbase surrounded by that combo.

 

I'd be running pure support, with Advent mostly support and a liberal dosing of disciples for antimatter transfer, and pour your dps into Vasari.  The combined restorative power will take a serious disadvantage just for you to lose frigates.

Reply #16 Top

I agree but i think he doesn't know how to micro very well or not at all so it comes down to throwing ships into gravity well and let them do what they do.

Otherwise its hard to imagine for them to be in predicament they are so they need to get fleet that can kill ais without any micro ....

Reply #17 Top

You don't really need to micro shield restore against the AI unless you're seriously outnumbered.  As long as you buy up to get level 2 shield restore before you're in a predicament where putting those comparably worthless 250 point restores on a frigate would lose you a capital ship, it's fairly irrelevant.  Now a Vengeance/Animosity/Shield Restore crap fest on a particularly huge fleet might get you in trouble without manually casting them, but if he can't handle two Dunov's he's got MS or something.