12 secs on spine attack...really?

Completely different characters = completely different balancing. I think someone posted DA can do 2600 burst dmg. TB is what, a lot less than that?

he can do 2600 burst damage at level 15, until then he has a mere 1800 with a 17 seconds cooldown. TB can cast 3-4 fireballs in 17 seconds, which gives him 3500 damage in the time DA can possibly make 2600

So now we are complaining that TB is stronger than DA? Show me this and I'll say buff DA. DA has a much greater ability to health stack and fireball as said does have a cast time.

And truthfully if you play burst damage TB you can do over 3k damage in 10 seconds. Fireball, fire nova, rain of ice, fireball and if you are high enough level throw a circle of fire in there. Thing is to be able to sustain this 300 dps (which is what DA would be doing in MELEE at this point) you need mana items while DA can sustain 300 dps without mana items. It comes down to 300 ranged dps a 4k health TB against a 300 melee dps (not to mention his skills at closing in so it's instant anyway) with 7k health.

Have you ever considered the fact that swap followed by warp strike is a like a free gank machine? Mana in, gank out...

DA is an amazing support character for a team, he can suck an enemy DG out of his happy place into a world of pain, then warp back in and pick at the carcass in an eyeblink.... If his ally(ies) left him anything by then. He's outrageously effective past lvl 5, esp paired with a high damage spiker like Reg, Rook, or TB.

DA's spine attack should make me not take any damage for 3 seconds,

oaks sheild does the same at level one, please adjust.

/sarcasm

There are a few good reasons why Spine Attack has a longer cooldown than Fireball.  Spine Attack does a little more damage than Fireball.  Spine Attack has shorter casting time.  DA is a melee demigod.  TB completely relies on ability damage, DA is a little meatier and has a little better AA.  TB might be able to do a few Fireballs in the time DA does one Spine Attack, but that isn't "burst damage," otherwise all of the 3500 damage of damage would occur nearly simultaneously.

This skill is already really good.  If DA needed a buff, maybe Spine Attack could deserve a shorter cooldown, but I really don't think DA needs a buff, or at least not one in this direction.  His near instant burst damage is very good.

It's possible to interrupt fireball, and a few other TB abilities, but DA's animations make interrupting his abilities nearly impossible.

Most demigods have one primary attack on about a 7 second cooldown and then a secondary attack on a 15 second'ish cooldown. For TB that's Fireball and Fire Nova, so the correct comparison is Fire Nova vs. Spine attack. Fireball is better compared to Warp Strike.

warp strike needs a buff

Warp Strike has a 17 seconds coolodwn and spine a 12 seconds so spine is compared to fireball

all> I don't see your point and clearly you haven't played DA a lot. DA's AA is comparable in damage with TB, unless he gets the passive crit, which, if you go for full ability, you won't. The fact that TB does the damage ranged is another Advantage, not disadvantage. DA is inferior in all regards, except the swap skill of course.

The reason it has a 15 second cooldown is because it can be cast in 0.3 seconds. Fireball can be interrupted, and it's easy to close the gap on TB when he's casting it. This won't happen with DA.

Warp Strike has a 7 seconds cooldown!

This is sole reason DA is even close to balanced. Seriously if you buff this, one big shitstorm will be upon us.

anyone else made the experience, that the staff of renewal doesn´t work on spine attack?! maybe i´m wrong with it, but its still 12s...

You don't see our point then. Let me state all your logical errors.

1. Warp Strike has a 7 second cooldown and at level 15 does MORE damage than fireball if you crit. And has the same cooldown time. Plus it is basically uninteruptable and has the same range. And if I am remembering correclty IT HAS MORE RANGE AT MAX.
2. Spine is more like fire nova. Which is uncomparable due to the Demigods themes. TB is completely AoE and Kiting oriented. DA is close supposed to close the distance on enemy demigods and then keep up sustained damage.
3. Big deal if he DOES do less burst. A correctly played burst TB can do around 3k damage in 5 seconds at level 20 and then do around 300 dps continuously. BUT YOU ARE MISSING THE BIGGEST THING. TB to be able to do this needs 2 or 3 mana items. While DA only needs plenors helm. Get his pool up and use mana potions the rest of the time. So a 5k health TB doesn't compare to a 8k health DA. And don't say this doens't happen. I've seen 6k health DA's at level 10.
4. As obscenitor says. EVERYONES AUTO ATTACK IS THE SAME! His skills make his more effective. I have failed to see a DA not get the crit stuff.
5. This game isn't about the Demigods themselves being balanced. If it was just stripped level 20 demigods with nothing on them then I'll bet you TB probally would win. Now I'd like to see you kill a DA who has Ashakander with 7k health. He's dishing well over 500 aa DPS without cirts at this point.
6. You are forgetting the interrupts and cast times. Spine is neigh instant. Fireball has a 1 second cast.
7. Yeah he has Shadow Swap. Which makes him that much more deadly. Like to see what a TB would do if all the sudden it was fireballing a tower and now he's next to the tower with a DA that just warp striked and spined him almost simultaniously.

You are missing the thing this game is based off.

Combat Situations!

The game isn't numbers.

Unless you count the fact that the code is in binary and... well you get my point.

Wow crazy stuff going on here. Personally I think they are both too mana dependant. The long CD on Spine attack is a shame though

I think the biggest factor here is that as an oak player, I can see a fireball coming from a mile away and put up a shield. But the DA can spine attack me before I can press the number 1 because his tail twitches as a natural part of his animation. The wait is good, and I argue that it should be a little longer...unless you make him do a dance before he shoots it.

Ok, I dont think my point came across. DA IS FUCKING OP.

He has sick sick burst and basically instantly kills ranged characters(with help of another melee demigod with swap). The thing is there is just one way to play him which includes no passives at all and totally abuses swap. This guy needs a change.

Agreed. He is hard to play like QoT but a beast against players once you get him.

DA synergizes best with assassins, but assassins do not have monks. That's a big problem in my opinion.

He isn't overpowered lifekatana. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I believe he is perfectly balanced. He only seems OP against ranged characters because ALL OF THEM ARE COMPLETELY UNDERPOWERED. Not one ranged character is considered powerful against ANYONE. UB demolishes ranged characters due to spit. Oak due to pentinence. Erebus due to batswarm/bite combo. It's just how the game is. Buff the ranged characters or nerf the big 3 and you will see much more diversity in demigod. The nerf would mostly hit ooze's debuffs, spit, pentinence, and bite which still is too strong. Make mist and mass charm stronger bite weaker.