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Demigod: Breakthru

Demigod: Breakthru

Yes!

Okay, I now feel confident in publicly saying that I think that the connectivity issues some have had is going to go away next week.

Here's what we've built:

1. If you open ports 6112 to 6200 and port forward them to your IP on your router (this is for people who are familiar with this stuff) you'll get what is called direct connect.

2. If you don't do this, we will try to do a quick NAT connect. This takes longer but works for most people.

3. If NAT fails, you will be connected to our Proxy server system.  This is not going to be super desireable at first because the physical location of the Proxy server is going to make the difference between a good and a lagfest.  When the proxy server is nearby (east coast US player for instance to the east cost proxy server) it's perfectly good.  But, for instance, if you're in Japan and it uses a proxy server in Singapore, you're adding 200ms to your latency which can make the game a total lag nightmare.  so this is clearly your last result.

...

Now, right now, the current version of Demigod uses a connectivity server that ONLY does option 2.  That's because it was decided early on that users shouldn't have to open ports.  This, IMO, should NEVER have been the first option because when you force even technically sophisticated users into this system, you end up having a LOT of unnecessary connections to these NAT servers.

...

So, I feel confident that this next week is going to be the turning point for those people who have had connectivity difficulties PLUS the whole range of stat stuff, pantheon stuff, etc. will all come into line as well because, as I've said elsewhere, because the connectivity thing was our #1 priority, everyone, including the people who would resolve favor items and favor points and accurate win/loss stuff have been pulled onto this.

Heck, this past week, I had the ART team from Elemental working on doing benchmarks for speeing up NAT (That's where we finally concluded that NAT, for P2P is just feasible when there's thousands of players, it would simply require so many NAT servers, located around the world, to make it not totally awful that it wasn't financially logical - we'd be better off just hosting all the traffic which is better anyway).

..

We absolutely do not want to do any more "betas".  The betas don't really solve our problems. We're getting rave emails from people in support today saying how this beta "totally fixes connectivity".  NO, it doesn't. The only reason it seems that way is because there's so fewer people using the beta servers. If you check impulsereactor.dll, it's still the same one from day 0.  So the betas don't really help because it gives us the same false sense of success that the actual open beta had.

The other problem with the beta is that it splits the multiplayer community which is really a problem.  Right now, the Demigod MP community is fragmented. You've got a ton of people on Game Ranger. a Bunch of people on Himachi, others on Demigod release and some on the beta.  And you get some very poor results hwen you play Skirmish or Pantheon or just find games.

..

Now one of the things that I've always been painfully aware of in online games is that you need a critical mass of users to make it work.  With Demigod, we have some plans on how to make sure there's always lots of people to play with once the MP is bullet proof both in terms of connectivity and stat tracking.  As someone who has been ejected from a pantheon game during connection, I know we have to do some QUICK changes to some of this stuff in order for the MP experience to have any integrity.

First, one of the things we did is we have everyone's email address who has updated the game.  When we start the next-gen pantheon with favor points, achievements, favor items, stat tracking, disconnects dealt with and of course bullet proof MP (all of which I expect to be done this week) we will email everyone letting them know where we are at.

Second, the Stardock marketing push will actually begin.  After that day 0 debacle with the MP connectivity being so crummy, I made marketing halt all Demigod marketing efforts. Those will go into high gear probably in the third week of May.

Third, and this is where we need your help: The demo.  We will be working with GPG on the demo but I was thinking of proposing that the demo for Demigod be multiplayer ONLY.  Moreover, I would like the demo players to be able to play online with legitimate players.  Here's where we need your help: What do you think would be a good way to limit this demo then in order to get people to still buy the game?

Fourth, we plan to start formal Demigod tournmants with cash and prizes for the winners.

Fifth, Stardock is working on an update to Impulse Reactor that will allow people to have more control over the types of people people are matched up with.  Think of it being like eHarmony but for gaming. :) You'll be able to describe the type of gamer you are and the match making system will pick out people for you.  This feature is actually being developed for Elemental but because Demigod uses Impulse Reactor, it'll get that for free.

Sixth, Stardock moderators will soon be introduced into the online community.  This will probably happen in mid-May.  The idea is, if we have forum moderators, why not multiplayer ones? Their job will be to provide enjoyable multiplayer experiences (i.e. good sports, skilled player, etc.) PLUS they will be able to add or subtract in-game karma from players.  People who are just nasty or horrible to other players will lose karma points. People who are good sports and good citizens will get points.  Those with higher karma will tend to get matched up.  Yes, we know this is controversal.  Players will see the karma as part of their account and there will be a way for users who feel they were unfairly negated to appeal.

Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

Thanks everyone!

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Reply #151 Top

Why would you not limit the Demigods they could play?  Give them two popular Demigods on each side, then let their mind think about if they want to see the game fully and buy it to the play the rest. 

 

Same with the items.  Block out the advanced shop and let everything in the orginal stay the same. 

 

Block out giants and the finger of god. 

 

Run the demo at certain settings to show the players they have more options if they buy the game.  Rather, if they are able to test them all out, they think they have been statisfied to the highest degree the game has to offer.

Reply #152 Top

Quoting SimRex, reply 25
If I were in charge of arranging a demo, I'd make it a free weekend, like Valve have done for Left4Dead, Team Fortress 2 and Unreal Tournament 3.  That strategy seems to work really well for them (or at least I assume so, as they keep on doing it!).  I can't think of a better way to demo a multiplayer game than having the whole thing for a couple of (non-working) days.

Of course, doing that means your servers are going to get absolutely hammered for that one weekend, and people will get angry if that impacts on download speed (as happened in Steam's UT3 free weekend).
End of SimRex's quote

 

You have to remember that not everyones non-working days are the same.  Not that she would play this game, but my mother-in-law works weekends because she manages an apartment complex and that's her busiest time of the week.

Reply #155 Top

Quoting BadAnti, reply 4
For demo purposes... limit them to playing Rook
End of BadAnti's quote

No no no! I don't want to play with 7 Rooks every game. Give every player one random DG, and access to no others.

Reply #156 Top

How about instead of 50% off a game we already have, anyone who bought demigod early on gets free access to the Elemental Beta so you can show us that you aren't doing it again.

With Demigod you charged us all $5 to access a barely functional beta, then early adopters get screwed because the people picking it up later have access to tons of 50% off coupons.  This is just showing that early adopters gets burned with stardock.

Reply #157 Top

Quoting Zerve0, reply 13

Quoting ToxDrawace, reply 10

*snip*



Actually, I mentioned that only two (or even one) of the DGs would be playable at a time. Every 24 hours a new DG would be selected. The user wouldn't be able to re-download to get the one they want, it would be based on the DG Main server. They would have to wait until the one they wanted gets picked, to be able to use that one that day.

For Example:

Today, players would only be allowed to play The Rook, and Oak. The two selected maps would be Crucible and Cataract. Tomorrow, the characters would be limited to Torch Beaer, and Queen of Thorns; the maps would then be Prison and Brothers, and so on. Each day, a new (possibly random, but still based on the Demigod main server) combination of DG's and maps for the demo players.

 
End of Zerve0's quote

Sorry, that wasn't fair of me, there were so many responses I was actually just scanning through most of them. I missed the essence of your idea. That actually makes a lot of sense, I'd go for that.

Reply #158 Top

Well the problem is this: You have to limit, but not make it unplayable ( So that players think they couldnt win without, or think they suck at this game, or the game sucks ) So you have only a few options:


Just one map one demi god per side.

And 10% lesser exp gaining gold gaining. So they could play "nearly" normal. Note: You must keep the player informed that there are those limitations like exp and gold ( So a big icon on left top or right showing on mouse over whats going on. So they know whats happening and why they ( Maybe ) loose ;-)

Reply #159 Top

I really think the demo should be something like this: AI-only, the same 2 Demigods on each team, and lowering the level cap to, say, 10.

Reply #160 Top

Quoting Chaosnaska, reply 13
WTF WTF WTF WTF this is the ONLY thing i don't like at ALL.
Smack talk is a BIG PART of DotA, continued on to be a BIG PART of this game, and practically all online MP games.  I'd rather not have karma points deducted because I am doing what the nature of the beast calls for!
I don't want to group up with nasty people, that would make is miserable for ME!
End of Chaosnaska's quote

 

Oh geezus, if you don't wanna be stuck with the douches, don't be a douche, voila!

 

About the demo, I honestly can't see any easy way of making it possible for the demo'ers to play online with the legitimate customers. Time limited accounts? They'll grab another, you can't make it too hard to get an account in the first place or it'll just put people off the demo completely. They'll need the full client, with updates, to keep playing with legtimate copies so there's an easy way for illegitimate copies to get patches too.

 

I'd do a limited demo client and keep them playing with each other. If the old Battlefield 2 multiplayer demo is any evidence there'll be plenty of cheap people playing the demo forever to make demo only multiplayer viable and it's the only way to dangle more content infront of people, limit maps, demigod choices, items, customisation options. The BF2 style multiplayer demo was enough to get me to buy the full game too, enough fun without a big chunk of content.

Reply #161 Top
For the demo, limit favour to 500 points. Disable achievements. Disable singleplayer. Limit games joined to random skirmish ONLY. And do not let them pick which demigod they play.
Reply #162 Top

Is it possible to limit the number of skills available for each demigod? If so, give demo players access to about 50% of the skill-tree for each DG.

Reply #163 Top

About time you get this fixed. Then lower the price 10$ for digital version and we'll have a best seller.

Reply #164 Top

i really hope that i will be able to play online next week. cant wait till than ^^

thanks for the 50% offer. just the right thing for a friend of mine, who didnt want to buy it for the 100% :)

nice idea. this way the players save some money and the community grows :)

Reply #165 Top

Good stuff.

 

As far as a demo goes...

I really dont like it when in game features are disabled for what that is worth. What I think would be best would to limit the demo to one big map only and no solo play. Plus carry over items and what not should/would last for say 48 hours. After that the stuff and stats go poof.  That way the player gets a full taste and the experience is timed. I think it is a win/win type of thing.

Reply #166 Top

How about you just make the game F2P every Friday or something.

Reply #167 Top

Too many people to give the %50 coupon to. I could sell it on eBay also }:) . Very glad to hear that this is fixed. And the demo, I believe that it should be limited to custom games and only on a few maps. 

Reply #169 Top

maybe for demo, you could lock all items except the first  row in all sections of the items store, as well as favor items

or lock 1 general and 1 assassin from both sides each

Reply #170 Top

Online demo seems like a bad idea for at least two reasons:

1.  This game's multiplayer has a history of not scaling well to increased users.  Just when Stardock gets the thing fixed for the people who bought it, they're going to dramatically increase the number of users by essentially giving multiplayer away for free?  That sounds like a recipe for disaster all around, with the potential to give both paying customers AND potential customers a crummy experience.

2.  Playing with feeders and leavers/AI is not fun for players with any amount of experience.  Flooding multiplayer with demo-noobs who feed and leave = a whole lot of 'not fun' for current customers.

The demo should just be single-player skirmish.  People can get a taste of how the game plays, and will understand, without giving them access to multiplayer, how much more fun it would be to be playing against humans.

Reply #171 Top

Idk you might not wanna limit the "experience" of the demo, so they get the full experience but only for a limited time?

14-day trials are quite common. Then they need to buy the game or a key to unlock the game. I mean distributing the full game as a 14-day trial shouldn´t hurt because I bet a pirated version is already circulating.

Great update!

Reply #172 Top

What I think would be best would to limit the demo to one big map
End of quote

I don't like the idea of limiting maps for the demo release. You need to give them a good chance to play the game in all situations. What if the playble map isn't popular at that moment? You don't want to make it hard for the demo players to actually play the game consistantly. I think the simplist way to limit the demo would be limit the Demigod selection to one General and one Assassin. Or even releasing the full game threw impulse for one weekend would work too. Otherwise Demigod/Favor restriction is the best way to go for a "permanent" download

 

1. This game's multiplayer has a history of not scaling well to increased users. Just when Stardock gets the thing fixed for the people who bought it, they're going to dramatically increase the number of users by essentially giving multiplayer away for free?
End of quote

Umm...hopefuly with the fixes coming this week and proxies coming soon, they should be able to handle all the users now, especially more when there is a marketing push. (At least I hope_

 

2. Playing with feeders and leavers/AI is not fun for players with any amount of experience. Flooding multiplayer with demo-noobs who feed and leave = a whole lot of 'not fun' for current customers.
End of quote

Whoah, wait a minute. We were all newbs at one point. If we want this community to thrive, we have to be nice to our newbs. Be a good sport when you have one on your team. Give them helpful advice without being snarky. If we treat the newbies like crap when they feed our opponents kills, what makes you think they'll wanna keep playing. The might play single player for a week and then just forget about the game.

Reply #173 Top

This is all fine and good, but not only do I have no desire for the 50% off of ANOTHER copy of Demigod, but the beta client for your new "fix" has left me unable to log in. After successfully triggering another unhandled exception and crashing my computer the game tells me my username and password are incorrect and will no longer allow me to even log in to the Multiplayer. Even after changing my login info I still can't login.

Stardock Karma -1

 

P.S. And whats the timeframe on this "fix". Ive heard plenty of talk from a developer like this before and seen no results. Actions speak louder than words.

Reply #174 Top

For the demo maybe you can limit how many matches they can play online? Like 10 matches for Pantheon, Skirmish and custom?

Reply #175 Top

IF YOU DO A DEMO, MAKE A TUTORIAL!
End of quote

That's one way to be read/heard....