Mage overpowered in Beta1-A ?

no - the torchbearer is not overpowered at all. He's powerful against creeps with his AoE spells, but has limited damage capability against other demigods. The deep freeze debuff is a great spell, but it doesn't do any damage. TB only has one direct damage single target ability - fireball. Compare this to UB, which can acid spit and health drain an enemy in about three seconds, doing about 2000 damage.

To prove this, play against a TB AI, and you'll see he'll probably score far more assists than kills.

A.I are stupid. they dont use it like a good player will do.

A good player (non A.I) will be able to keep his distance and avoid your 2000 domage while he domage us. Its freze you and then slow you down to hell and hit you from distance with his normal attack.

And btw the normal attack of a mage is more powerfull than the UB ?! wtf is that.

Mage: 111-116 startingdomage stats

UB: 79-84

This is so unnormal.

I played against my friend who take TB.  I took UB and losse, After I took Rook, I loose more miserably.

Beta was perfect. I was owning him. now with this frost, no melee can get to the mage.

At least, slow the attack speed but not movement... this guys already have a ice stun. cmon.  No wonder there is no-one online.....

granted I've only played against AI opponents, but still, TB is pretty fragile and doesn't do a whole lot of damage. Teamed up with a rook or UB he would be excellent, but that's not unbalanced, that's just teamwork.

I still find UB and Rook to be more powerful than the TB

TB is more fragile than the other demigods and he does less dmg. Deep freeze is his main spell, i ussually just go deep freeze, slow aura and attribute bonuses + dmg items for pwnage, but that build is no better (infact its worse) than my UB, rook and regulus builds. UB can get more ms than him when UB is deep frozen! that sais alot.

If you play much online with 3v3 and 2v2 you will quickly realise that he is not op at all

TB with fire aura is the strongest hero currently I think even stronger than UB, at least before UB gets level 15 and  especially if you play 3vs3 and have an ally on the same lane. UB can't really do much against TB because TB with fireaura has enough speed to fire and move away without getting hit.

the +75 Damage you get from switching from fire to ice is insane early game - if both demigods are level 15 and have the same money UB might be indeed stronger but usually you will have more money and/or xp at this point in the game.

the ice build is a bit weaker I think (and extremely annoying to play against, a permanent slow because of a slow aura is no fun and the new deep freeze is more annoying than the stun had been)

Yeah teamed up its no problem.

But 1vs1 , hes OP

Playing as a direct-damage UB I haven't yet lost a game 1 v 1 against Torchbearer.  TB might get a couple of kills in up to level 10, but UB levels more quickly and does alot more damage at high levels.  If TB is sniping I usually just avoid him and teleport-ambush for the two-hit kill when he messes with my buildings.  TB can't do the same to me when I start destroying his towers, and late game his stronghold goes down in less than a minute.

Wagnard - you might have problems because of the way you are speccing.  What skills are you focusing on?

There should not be a better speccing. If so why give us the choice if anyone is taking the always same "better" path?

Anyway. if you guys play with A.I its normal you dont see the problem.

There is also the abuse of regulus mines. If I take regulus, anyone whos melee (rook or UB) will die.

Anyway this is beta so I sure hope this does not represent final gameplay.

Imo. Beta 1 was more fun.

I'm not playing against AI, I'm playing against good players online, Saturday and Sunday mornings (EST). 

Really?  As Unclean Beast I'm not going to beat a spellcaster 1 v 1 using Ooze and Plague and Spit, although all of those abilities can be really useful against creeps, in team play, or against different demigods.  I don't think speccing straight damage is good for every situation, but certainly for this one. 

Regulus has come into his own as a minelayer (if at the expense of his most effective build in 1.0) but UB shouldn't lose to him either, 1 v 1. 

Frankly at this point in a 1 v 1 game I'd take UB over any other Demigod available, and I'm happy to test that out with anyone who wants to

I understand you r point and its true the UB have a pretty high dommage. Maybe I just have trouble with the semi-buggy atack system.

YOu click attack and sometime he wont do it or he do but if you opponent move away, your stuck on place...

Can you share me your speccing with UB if you dont mind? maibe its just mee doing bad choice.

Oh also what item do you specifically buy for UB.

Btw your on what channel on hamachi?

Thanks.

my UB recipe against Torch goes something like this - I've left out artifacts since they are broken

Max out Bestial Wrath, Inner Beast, and Stats in that order, and don't forget Foul Grasp.  Don't put points in anything else, because you don't need them.  

Wrath should let you farm creeps better than TB, even if he can hurt you better early.  That's ok, you won't kill him much (unless he sucks) before level 10, so just keep farming and don't get greedy.  You should be at least one level ahead of him when you reach level ten.  This is where you can two-hit him if he gets too close, basically Foul Grasp and then Wrath to catch up when he runs.

UB's melee is buggy.  He won't auto-attack anything that isn't touching him.  So the trick when you are chasing someone is to Wrath up and use your superior speed to run past your opponent and stop in his path of retreat.  You will get three or four good hits in while he is passing you, which should be all you need.  *Don't go to where your opponent is, go to where he will be*

If your enemy is smart he'll retreat to behind his towers before you can catch him.  That's OK too, because it lets you use Wrath to really wreck those towers.   TB will keep harassing you, but don't chase him, put as much damage into a tower as you can and back up to lick your wounds as necessary, if he gets too close you can always Grasp him for more life.  Eventually your enemy will run out of towers to hide behind, and it's gg. 

If he tries the same thing on you by attacking your towers just port to the tower and kill him. 

If you do this right you should be able to take down all his defense and allow him none of yours, while keeping up a lead on xp and gold. 

Flags should be even until level 10 or so, at which point you should start owning all of them.  UB has an advantage here, because he can sit on a flag and TB has to stay out of his range, can't contest even with stuns.  

Useful Items in order of buying: attack speed gloves, cooldown reduction helm, Nature's Fury Ring, most expensive boots, most expensive armor, Allfather's ring

Endgame direct-damage Beast is hitting really hard and really fast, and just won't die.  I haven't really been paying attention to stats, but I have seen some 3000 hp hits while in Wrath.

I'll usually play Sat and Sun 10am - 2pm EST on LANs -

demigod for noobs // do it

Slyboots // Slyboots

ugh.. no he's not overpowered.  The game just needs more work before balancing out the demigods.

Thanks a lot for your timee for writing this.

I think my problem where mostly with the buggy melee attack. I wasnt able to score a hit on Tb while he keep freezing/slowing me to the ground...

Ill probably play less Beta 1-a for now. since too many bugs. And from what I saw, most of them seems reported.

All hail Beta 2

ALL melee attacks are buggy.  That's a bug not balance issue.

If you swing in melee it needs to still hit even if someone moves out of range, and you need to auto-follow and attack when in range.

The problem with TB at the moment is that after lvl 10 he doesnt have enough health to live and his dbs doesnt even compare to any of the other heroes. He's still useful but he's more for support after lvl 10. Wagnards DPS build is essentially the same as mine, but i actually think it isnt as good vs TB as the nuking builds because you can almost bring a TB to 0 hp with one nuke. The nuke builds are useless vs rook and other UB's though so don't go it in any game with either of them.

Well I think there is no problem with the dps because the TB have a passive skill and some active skill that reduce attack speed. SO this reduce dps of any other heroes.

The main problem I see with the TB when someone is going ice, is that this game begin to be a STUN game. ANd imo his is no fun.

When I play TB I may die MAX 1-2 time a game. The rest of the time I keep freezing /slowing my oponent down and your beloved UB cant put a finger on me(except for his long range attack)while im doing damage.; ANd even if he get close, pass level 10, I have the ring artifact and my HP is approx 4000. So Im far from afraid of UB.

I may have wrongly formulated my TB is overpower. Mayb e I should have put this as TB is making the game boring with his non stop slow/stun.

Anyway its just my opinion.

Of course it doesn't. This isn't even the balancing pass.

I've got nothing against slows and stuns, although many people seem to, as long as they are used sparingly, as ultis or high CD skills. It only becomes a problem if permas start becoming commonplace

I would be epicly impressed if you can get 4000 HP by level 10 when ive havnt died cause im smart. He is only good early game or if he owns the early game.

high cd skills are stupid and bad for gameplay.

I disagree there innociv. Certainly if EVERY skill is high-cd thats bad for gameplay but having one or even two "high cd" skills is quite acceptable and can give you more variation by allowing for a stronger ability-effect.

-Drexion

ya, but thats a ot of time watching your demigod smack things... with your thumb up ur ass

I don't like skills being superpowerful and "balanced" with high cooldown.

Just mashing hotkeys and then using normal attacks for the next minute is stupid.

what he said. Shorter cool downs = more intense gameplay, which is what GPG/Stardock are aiming for

High CD on ulti attacks works as long as they are few and far between. Ulti's that are awsome cause of their numbers are ussually boring and are balanced with high CD's, but ultis that are good cause they have an ultimate effect (ex. void, mirana, enigma etc.) need high cd because it makes you hesitent about using the skills.

Im just against a game that will be a "stun game".

Sometimes it feels like if your slowed down or stunned, your dead...

Anyway this is just the engine test so i guess we should not talk to much about balance right now.

On 1vs1 there may be some balance issue but when we r 2vs2 or 3vs3 or even more, I think anything is possible.