Thalons gonna need to be nerfed.

I don't think juding a races strength by the way the AI plays them matters for much. It seems to differ based on who's computer is running the game. Some people have their biggest problem as the torians. Mine tend to be the Krynn or Korath (and suddenly Terrans my last couple of games). On the other hand, there do seem to be races that are universially weak, like the Korx.

This is a very odd post to see after all the "Thalans are too weak" type of posts during beta. They have their strengths, but others have seen them get crushed.

I mainly play on Tough with Medium maps and 9 opponents. The Thalans decimate their neighbors in these cramp quarters due to getting Embassies as their first building (and thus the Pink Blob of Doom effect). Others, playing on Large or bigger maps playing on Suicidal see them get destroyed. The cramp quarters allows them to expand via influence flips, spread them out and they take a while (too long on suicidal) to get moving forward.

I do agree with Insanetitan, the Terrans seem to be a juggernaut of late. I'm not sure if it's sue to my allocation of their points to speed/influence/diplo and the AI just enjoying that to it's fullest or what...I've actually removed them from recent games. The Torians do get moving well early on, but if you have tech trading & stealing off, they don't do well later in the game (as intended by tech tree).

With very few exceptions, I think you can find a setting where any race will be dominant. One of those is the Korx. They rely too much on Trade and from what people are saying on Trade income, it's in a sad state...thus crippling their economy.

I think the Terrans simply have no weak point, which makes them easier to play both for the AI and the human. With the MCC dead, the Thalans are viable, but I don't think they are too strong.

I have Terrans with +Research +Econ +Mil in addition to their innates on Tough; I militarize too fast for them. To be fair, I have no love for the Terrans (!) and purposely avoided giving them additional +speed and +influence which I would if I were seeing how to maximize their abilities. The few games I've done with the Terran tech tree do feel well rounded

Thalans have a large empire, but it's HOLLOW for the early part of the game.

Next time, attack them early. You'll find that they no military, low soldiering capability, and low population (because of no farming techs).

If you want to verify this, try an empire like this:

Small or Medium Size
You, Thalan, Drengin

In my game, the Torians were the biggest, baddest at first. Then an influence-event that affected everybody but the Torians totally nerfed them out as planet-after-planet revolted. Now the Thalians are the biggest menace now. The Terrans are a distant 2nd. I am playing on an immense map. I just have a handful of systems but I produce a third of the entire galaxy in research. Everybody was allied up, but now the whole galaxy is falling apart into war.

The Yor are by far the strongest tech wise. 1-3 bc maintenance collectives, an incredible research building to start, the best pop/morale building in the game, strong soldiering, strong econ... There really is no downside

the Drengin ate them my past game...lol for making this thread right before they got eaten.

I also agree the korx tend to stink...

my game right now they are on a roll and are in a great position... there military is unusually weak tho to a fault.

anyway my first game with the new expansion has the game down to 6 races...


the altarians started massive with a huge tech lead and 2.5 times the population of the next nearest race...
rians
they and a galactic coalition go against the terrans and the humans level the altarians and did damn well for themselves.

I took out the weak drengin and the korx as always are swallowed by the terrans. The drath are the largest power to the east with the iconians having a minor empire.

the Thalons hold thier own against the terrans and swallow the remainder of the altarian empire and a portion of the former korx from the terrans.... they have a huge tech lead and 4 times the military of every other party... they are number 1 in every category and have the game by the balls...


the altarians have a small empire with 0 influence left... weird how they died so quickly with such superior tech.

I actually think the Yor are one of the better races. The AI usually does well with them also.

They definately work very well with a colony rush playstyle. You only put down the minimal on colonies in the beginning (starport, r matrix, m grid, recruit cent, one collective, eff center). You should be able to colonize non stop at 80-100% production. Rushing the full economics tree and most of the pop growth tree is pretty key as well.

I like the Yor. They have some of the most efficient buildings available, along with a nice population growth rate.

Not what I'm seeing! Currently, the Korx have some of the most advanced warships in the galaxy, and haven't been doing badly in conquest. Their main problem is only that they're being swamped culturally by the Krynn, and are sandwiched between every other race...

hmm, ive been playing the Yor (on Tough) because of all the recent Yor bashing and ive nearly conquered the universe, and my economy is booming, and i have well-developed planets, so... i'd say their fine, but that prehaps the AI needs to be 'taught' how to use them properly.

Are you playing with tech trading on? It makes a massive difference. Tech trees with massive holes big enough to drive a Terror Star through still work fine when you can plug them with somebody else's technology. Otherwise. . . I'd like to see how you're booming the Yor economy. Only way I ever manage it is with lots of empty tiles, and every world built up to 16-20 billion population. It's doable, but I usually end up in the "getting by" rather than "booming" economy bracket.

About the Yor... Can you steal techs from invasion with tech trading off and tech stealing on (I never toggle these)? If so, you can always steal all the techs you need from invasions, and you will be invading plenty as Yor.

On planets I build in order starport, recruit center, maint grid, research matrix, collective, eff center. Then 1-3 charging stalks depending on planet size. This planet will have a net positive income, if you have many planets from colony rush/invasion this equals lots of moneys. Of course, you have to use some of this income for additional collectives and research buildings.

I think with Yor two 8 planets are better than a 16 (assuming only Yor tech tree). I know with other races I would rather have one 16 than two 8s. Although I usually don't do it, it seems like hostile worlds would also be good choice for Yor. The 50% production doesn't matter, since all your buildings take low production to build. With other races it takes forever to build up hostile worlds.

Tech-wise it seems pretty key to rush the full economics tree ASAP, and most of the population growth tree.

Longterm, you just need more planets than others. If you let others have similar number of planets they will outtech and outbuild you.

I played a Yor game and didn't build any market centers (stole xeno econ in an invasion, tech trading is off) and with max efficiency studies I'm doing fairly well economically. And yes, lots of empty tiles, but I don't mind empty tiles. Max econ studies is equivalent to max government +15% and you can push your tax rate up without worrying about elections - I normally hold my rate at 29% but with Yor it's 39%.

TBH I miss tidal disruption more than I miss econ buildings. Relying on info warfare is a pain.

Stick to the initial manufacturing+research buildings (the upgrades are less efficient), focus on most of the economic efficiency techs and the pop growth techs initially, this should give you a powerful starting position with a good economy. Use this to build up a quick army of transports+backing force and take over your neighbours. Mid-late game you'll have lost this advantage (other races tech's will make them more efficient, or gain better bonuses), but by this time you'll have more planets to more than make up for it.
Oh and my experience was with tech trading off (although I did gain a few techs through invasion, of course)

Pretty much how I usually play the Yor - empty tiles, low tech factories, and robot zerg rush the very instant the colony rush is over. I still never manage to have what I'd consider a "booming" economy, but it's good enough to get by. Races with strong diplomacy are my bane - my economy is never good enough to survive a war on multiple fronts, which is what I always get if I am fenced in and forced to fight the Altarians, Drath, or Terrans. Anybody else I can manage against as my initial target, at least for now.

Yes i have tech trading on. but im not really using many of the stock exchanges (i have a couple on my recently conquered planet, but i havent gotten around to changing those planets yet to make them fit in with my grand strategy).

I think the bonuses i chose (it was a while ago) were along the lines of Moral, pop. growth as high as it would go, and also some soldiering, i build the Ypr structure that gives a 20% econ. bonus (but is 1 per planet) on every planet and have a couple of charging stalks on each planet usually too, immense galaxy, with evrything on common, i think.

I kicked ass in my Yor game. Try them again. I had tech trading on, and used some production buildings I traded for to fill in any gaps in my manufacturing. And I was vicious with starbase mining bonus things. I will go nuts on someone for an econ bonus. I love those more than the war ones.

I've had pretty much the opposite experience to the disappointed in my first game with the Yor; I have a booming economy as good as the Thalans while rush conquering the galaxy even faster than the Drengin, and this is against edited (for the better, I hope) opponents. Tough level

Yor are bloody scary if they get to the conquerin' fast enough. The pitiful organics will never know what hit 'em!

Especially scary if an early Creativity proc hands 'em Planetary Invasions in 3 turns. . . ouch!