Haeso Haeso

Balance, 1.04

Balance, 1.04

I'm being nice this time.

    So as you all know, the 1.04 patch for sins is out, I'm sure most of you have played it. Please note: I'm not bashing the game, I just see these as important balance concerns.


    First concern: Illuminators, clearly right now they are overpowered. It shouldn't have to be explained, but on the off chance it does. Even at t3 and a higher cost. For the same cost and fleet supply as lrms, if the TEC player has twice as much of these two resources invested, the advent player with Illuminators will win.


    Fix: Either remove the secondary weapon banks, reduce damage all around, reduce survivability, or increase cost/fleet supply. Alternately, look into creating their own damage/armor type to keep them as effective as desired against certain things without dominating what used to counter them (Flak, massively outnumbered by lrms/assailants)


    Second concern: Flaks do not counter illuminators effectively anymore. Nothing to explain at all this time, just not a cost effective counter.


    Fix: See above, custom damage/armor for illums would fix this. That's my prefered solution.


    Third concern: Addressed non-publicly.


    Fourth concern: Brill/malice, I realize they're level 6. I realize it requires two capitals. But please realize this synergy is just too powerful.


    Fix: Make cleansing brilliance not work with malice, problem solved. They're both still incredible abilities, but no longer a two press I win combo.


    Fifth concern: Random number of resource asteroids per planetoid. This isn't really important, but as I stressed last time, I feel some sort of way to edit this without modding the game (Like the speed settings) Should be added. 1-1 or 1-2 per asteroid 1-2 or 2-2 per terran/desert 0-3 or 0-4 for volc opposite for ice would also be fine. Neutral planetoids should contain 1-2 for the ones without pirates, 2-3 for those with, maybe 2-4.


    Fix: Explained in concern.


    Sixth (Edited in): Embargo.


    Fix+Explanation: With the way your starting economy works, 2-3 jumps away from the enemy means his sova will be embargoing long before you have any substantial form of income other than your homeworld. As it is, embargo is a shitty shitty ability - unless it's used early game on a homeworld. Where it ends up taking a large percentage of your entire economy instead of some backwater planet that is generating almost no revenue to begin with.


    I recommend adjusting the value stolen for home planets or changing the ability. Maybe get rid of the stealing, keep "embargoing" the trade ships and forcing them to stay in, but add instead of increased build time. You can't build with embargo active. Make it less of a cooldown, less duration, same AM/minute. Possibly make it half the duration of the cooldown level 1 75% level 2 100% level 3? Beatable by simply building a factory on the asteroid you can get before a sova gets to your base in all cases.


    Embargo becomes a tactical ability rather than an economic ability that in and of itself is a tactic because of how powerful it is. Or just adjust the percentage stolen - whatever floats your boat, but it really should be nerfed. I love using it, it's funny, and amusing to see reactions like "Why is my planet getting 0 taxes". But it's broken, it's not beatable on all but the largest maps where it's simply too many jumps to get there so you can have a fleet before it does arrive.


    Last, and I hope this is addressed with 1.10... True dev tools that allow for scripting in galaxy forge.


    Fix: Self explanatory.


    I really love the game, but I hope 1.1 is soon or this is changed. We all want every race to be viable, not a cycle or "flavor of the month" nerf/buff scenario. I realize you guys are trying, just want to give some viable changes. If it's not possible, whatever, I'll deal with it, I do enjoy the game. I just think these things would make it better.


    If anyone has any questions, or wishes to debate any of these concerns, bring a reasonable argument. And I'll be happy to discuss it. If I see "Well advent sucked before" as justification, for example however. Heads will roll.
106,167 views 84 replies
Reply #26 Top
@ innociv : After reading most of your posts, for the past 1½ month, I would venture that War is more your expertise than Diplomacy.   
End of quote


Of course, compared to HuntingX he's the world's greatest diplomat :) Also, why take the war into the game? It's more fun to watch this way.
Reply #27 Top
I'm pretty diplomatic.

Theres a surrender button I let my enemy use.
Reply #28 Top
Well HC and LRF are the game yes. That's simple. There are 5 damage type ships, 2 of them are counter mostly due to their limited use. Those two are light frigates and flak. Then you have 3 pure damage units, Heavy Cruiser, Long Range Frigates, and Carriers. Carriers blow for the most part, the mechanic is not great and they are an expensive hassle. So you are left with only 2 kinds of ships with which to make up the bulk of ur forces with.

While fixing carriers would make for a 3rd alternative, understand that the game is designed like this. The bulk of your force will be this type of unit, the one that deals most damage. Doesn't mean that other untis are worthless. Support cruiser make huge difference in fights of units of the same type, like HC vs HC.

Complaining that "OMG you have to make a ship that deals damage to win a war game" is really stupid.

Carriers could use some love thou.
Reply #29 Top
Why do you doubt I'll 1v1 him?
End of quote


Go right ahead, just dont try to diciple rush him like you did HuntingX in that one replay you posted. I hope you were just dicking around and didn't seriously think that was a winning strategy.

This will be an interesting match because you guys are almost the same, except you and huntingx are slightly worse in the arrogant jerk department.

Anyway, be sure to post the replay of this pissing contest. Honestly though, I think Haeso would beat you pretty badly. At least he's not an arrogant jerk all the time. =)

What I really want to see is Haeso and HuntingX duke it out. Now I'll make some pop-corn for that one. But I'd probably eat 2 handfuls before it was over. Those guys love to rush.
Reply #30 Top
Please do a 1v1, then post it. I'd really like to see a replay of good players do a 1v1. I'd learn a lot (till 1.1 that is).

Reply #31 Top
This thread is starting to feel like a countdown to a big UFC fight-night event.



Reply #32 Top
This thread is starting to feel like a countdown to a big UFC fight-night event.
End of quote


Reminds me of professional wrestling 'rivalries'.

And just like wrestling, it's just two sweaty, nasty, untalented Neanderthals pointing and yelling a lot, whose self-importance is hinged completely on the opinions of idiots.
Reply #33 Top
Why do you doubt I'll 1v1 him?Go right ahead, just dont try to diciple rush him like you did HuntingX in that one replay you posted. I hope you were just dicking around and didn't seriously think that was a winning strategy.This will be an interesting match because you guys are almost the same, except you and huntingx are slightly worse in the arrogant jerk department.Anyway, be sure to post the replay of this pissing contest. Honestly though, I think Haeso would beat you pretty badly. At least he's not an arrogant jerk all the time. What I really want to see is Haeso and HuntingX duke it out. Now I'll make some pop-corn for that one. But I'd probably eat 2 handfuls before it was over. Those guys love to rush.
End of quote

Rofl to that whole post.
Reply #34 Top
On a more serious note, I would be very interested to study the replay of a innociv/Haeso (or HuntingX/Haeso) confrontation.

Not really because I care to know who would come out as The Top Dog in such a fight (I don't believe that you can rate a player based on only one match), but rather, because the analysis of such a replay would be very informative and educative for us, lesser creatures.

All those theorycraft debates on various threads are interesting up to a point.

But seeing how very good players (like innociv, Haeso, HuntingX, Astax, etc.) actually compete against each other, putting in practice what they preach on the forum (if...they do practice what they advocate in writing !), is an effectively useful complement to abstract discussions.



Reply #35 Top
I agree totally that carriers need some love. I also think strike craft could use a couple strike craft specific upgrades.

As to capitals getting demolished, well, what do you expect? With a large fleet, if they focus fire, there's not much you can do; they're just ships, even if they get experience, and ships die. There's a reason you can build 16 of them.
Reply #36 Top
I'm in IRC all the time.

I'm not going through the hastle of waiting in game and arranging a 1v1 on the forum. It's much easier to go on irc "ready to play, innociv?" and then i say yes or no.

And CyberMage, HuntingX would win most likely.
Reply #37 Top
Considering the one game I've played with huntingx, his micro was woeful, his build order was slow, he's nothing special. It took the two of them (Astax/huntingx) about thirty minutes to take me out, and my damage taken/dealt ratio was still higher they only beat me because of numbers.

I'll take any of you in a best out of 3, and I'm not downloading MIRC just for a contest that won't even be one. If you want to play me talk to me on Ironclad when we're both on. I have nothing to prove to anyone, I'm damn good at this game, but if you want to come get stomped meet me on ICO.

[GE] Haeso
Reply #38 Top
This thread is starting to feel like a countdown to a big UFC fight-night event.Reminds me of professional wrestling 'rivalries'.And just like wrestling, it's just two sweaty, nasty, untalented Neanderthals pointing and yelling a lot, whose self-importance is hinged completely on the opinions of idiots.
End of quote


Right because I'm passionate about what I do I'm a Neanderthal. It couldn't be because I care about the game and overall think it's great but feel there could be improvements. It's got to be about creating a pissing contest. You found me out.

Get off the forums you presumptuous idiot.

Reply #39 Top
Didn't you lose like 3 times in a row to X already?

I don't think random scrubs should talk trash when they only have a boatload of losses to their name.

Sorry :(
Reply #40 Top
Haeso, why don't you just play him 1v1? Also, did you not get stardock online? That has an IRC client built in. Another possibility is to set a time.

Your method to instigate conflict is transparent however. Everyone knows HuntingX is good. He has replays galore to prove it. He's cocky, yes, but he understands the game's strategy.

I have nothing to prove to anyone, I'm damn good at this game, but if you want to come get stomped meet me on ICO.
End of quote


The best players don't say they're good, they show it. Contrary to what you might think, Hunting generally doesn't make claims that he's "damn good". Instead, he challenges people to 1v1s, wins, then posts the replay.

Your ego may have become a little over sized from all the GE members singing high praises of you. If you want people outside your circle of friends to take you seriously, start showing results of you beating competent players.
Reply #41 Top
Well sounds like a lot of bitchin. No matter how over powered any one unit is. It still takes someone smarter than a monkey to win with any of the races. Are you smarter than a monkey>:?
Reply #42 Top
Le's curb stomp some noobs :)
Reply #43 Top
Well sounds like a lot of bitchin. No matter how over powered any one unit is. It still takes someone smarter than a monkey to win with any of the races. Are you smarter than a monkey>:?
End of quote



You might have a point.. but please don't feed the trolls.


However slightly antagonistic, these are the opinions of experienced players on an open forum, and honestly I'm really interested to hear both sides. I know I'll learn something from it. Therefore to me it's not all a bad thing...
Reply #44 Top
I will say that the game is still unbalanced. However, it's not nearly as unbalanced as Haeso's depiction. Malice/brilliance, while nasty, is counterable.
Reply #45 Top
Everything is "counterable" that's not the point, it's how much it costs to counter it, the correct counter unit to a spam shouldn't be beat on a 1-1 cost ratio or anywhere near it.

As far as playing you, I'll play any time I'm there, I was eating when you were on. Just got back from that to see you swearing and acting like a child on ICO.

I've beaten astax quite a few times, we nearly beat you, only losing to one combination. Play me again if you want, you won't win. HuntingX I've lost to your team once because mine played poorly. Yet I was beating you 1v1 untill your ally showed up. Quite handily - I might add. Your build order was slow and inefficient, you relied on astax to force me to retreat to my homeworld to save you. Had proph put pressure on Astax you would have lost that game easily.

Jinx I've only played you once and you said yourself we were well ahead of you in military and econ. We only lost because of malice/brill. Hell, if we'd been advent and gone Illums we probably would have won before you even got to level 6, but I hadn't played 1.04 much yet and didn't know how powerful advent were. Before they were weak as hell. Now they're more balanced than they were, but the scale was tipped too far in the other direction.

I'm not arrogant or egotistical at all, talk to me on ICO when I'm not AFK and don't spam the channel waiting for me either. And I'll be happy to kick your ass, from that 3v3 I know how good you are huntingx, and I know I can beat you.
Reply #46 Top
Didn't you lose like 3 times in a row to X already?I don't think random scrubs should talk trash when they only have a boatload of losses to their name.Sorry
End of quote


One clan match to date that we lost because of a mistake one of my allies made, one that we would have easily won otherwise. If you try and argue that let me first point out A: Your odd man out was dead 1v1 essentially had you not been able to help him it would have been gg. B: 1v1 I was beating you. C: 1v1 Proph had done nothing to hit Astax allowing me to be double teamed. D: I have every confidence playing Astax and proph several times that proph would have won if he hadn't messed up. We had you outmatched and lost by a mistake one player made. If you want to call what was essentially a close 2v3 a win. Go for it. Anyone who watched that replay knows what I'm talking about, and knows it was a hollow "victory". Don't go spouting about all your wins when realistically you have none.

Reply #47 Top
Making excuses when you get owned is pretty good. You've lost at least twice to X now.

As regards to that game, I got hit by a Sova rush as 1.03 Vasari, the crappiest faction in existence. I thought the map was large, and was trying to RA rush. Instead, I saw it wasn't, and started pumping late assailants. I STILL downed the most capital ships AND killed the most frigates. You were "owning" me alright. YOU newbs went mass Sovas and embargo abused (AND STACKED IT LIKE BUG EXPLOITING SCRUBS) and STILL you lost.

You're utterly pathetic.

I don't think GE even considers you one of their top 3.

You're a sad excuse as a person, and as a sins player. And I'm sure, when you eventually stop dodging, that you'll get humiliated in a set of 1v1s, and will never show your buttugly newb face on the forums again.
Reply #48 Top
You went vasari 1.03 and I went tec 1.03, and you're complaining? if you're so good you should know how it works, and it stacked on it's own (Auto cast had a chance to stack it). That's not my fault. I've said it should be nerfed, they decided not to. Again, not my fault. I used an effective strategy and you didn't, I would have beat you but had to withdraw because of 2v1. You're judging me as a "person" and accusing me of dodging because I don't like starving? Whatever man, grow up. Talk to me when I'm on ICO then actually stay on for a bit, I'm always at my computer but I'm usually doing other stuff (I work and take classes from home, so even if I'm on it might be a while before I get a chance to alt tab back in and check whispers)
Reply #49 Top
All I hear is:

"I abused a broken tactic vs a crappy race, but I can't use my units, and my teammates suck. Then the player with the crappy race ran to my homeworld and owned me. Consequently, I got buttraped, and now I'm crying about it. Boo hoo."

Cry me a river. I like it.
Reply #50 Top
We would have won if my teammate hadn't made a mistake, you were outplayed by me. You want to come up with excuses why you couldn't take me 1v1 then, go for it, but I was beating you quite easily. I wasn't using any strategy that you couldn't use. But keep trying, it's amusing how you insult me and paraphrase poorly to try and hide the fact that you played worse.