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Phase Jump Disco Hopscotch Patty Cake

Phase Jump Disco Hopscotch Patty Cake

Repost into the correct forums subcategory

I was wondering if anyone who has played against the normal ai/hard ai has noticed this. I was playing Singleplayer last night, (mind you I'd rather play MP, but we get a we'rd game crash dump error, when our systems are 100% stable and up to date), and after colonizing an outer desert planet that was next to a wormhole and also a choke point, I started to build it up. Well, of course, I get no real attacks from the ai so I continue on my way upgrading tech and planets.

After I had a very sizeable force built up and good tech I went forward to blow some stuff up, this is where the problems come in. This was a 3 person FFA, 2 computers and me. I would go to the wormhole just to find the ai chilling in the wormhole doing nothing, then instantly deciding to target me. They didn't have an alliance or anything that I was aware of. Now mind you I was able to handle both their fleets so I started micro'in to attack and kill their capitol ships. I managed to kill 2 of about 7, but then they all retreat into the wormhole. I follow them and then the come back to the other wormhole. So then I have to follow and they end up destroying an astroid.

My problem comes down to this. The computer hopscotches like a bunch of punk ferrywinkles. Not just in wormholes, but also with phase jumps. I'll phase jump a fleet and the instant my phase jump starts, they are phase jumping a full fleet into the planet I'm leaving. I phase back, they retreat and don't fight, even though they have a force almost the same size as mine. The computer will never fight me if it has even 1 less ship then me. That does not seem like it desirable gameplay mechanic. It wouldn't be so bad if I weren't phase jumping back and forth the ENTIRE GAME.

In fact, the only time I kill his forces is if I phase ontop of him and kill his capitol ships before they can retreat. I've also noticed I can bait them by sending in weaker forces ahead and letting them think they can go rape the force, then phase jumping on top, but again, they instantly retreat, many times before a battle can even begin.

I then went to attack one AI player, well, of course the instant I phased to kill his planet, the other ai player, orange, would come and attack my now empty planet, I return, he runs. Wash, rinse, repeat. It is very frustrating. I would notice that sometimes the two ai would attack eachother, so they definitely had no alliances, but I never saw them attack each other's planets.

In closing, I absolutely HATE, DESPISE, LOATHE, the phase jump hopscotch you have to play with the computer. I realize now that if I want to beat the computer I have to have 3 fleets, 1 for attacking and 2 for defending when the computers decide to team up 90% of the time in an FFA.

Anyone else notice something like this? Have any useful or at least non-troll comments? I'll take constructive criticism. I realize I shoulda had 2 fleets and that woulda saved me a lot of headache, but damn the hopping around instantly crap.
29,358 views 55 replies
Reply #51 Top
Link about new phase inhibitor


Just thought for those who haven't seen the above thread you would want to check it out. These are ideas being thrown around in-house, hopefully the devs do add this special advanced phase jump inhibitor that has to be destroyed before you can jump out. And hopefully it is strong enough to withstand a good beating for about 2-3 minutes :)

Reply #52 Top

On the subject of fleets going straight past a defensive fleet and striking deeper within the empire... I'd just like to point out that this is one of the biggest (theoretical) problems with a defensive doctrine in space combat. Space is HUGE and ships move FAST. It isn't feasible in real life to build a meaningful defensive network that could cover a planet, not to mention a whole system, so why should it work out in a simulation?
End of quote


Because in this simulation, there is something called "gravity wells" and something else called "phase lanes." If you want real life, remove both, plus remove the whole idea of ships ever moving at phase jump speeds.

Some of us want time to actually think about and implement our own strategy, instead of getting bogged down running around putting out fires like some stupid, moronic RTT tactical clickfest, always having to run around with your fleet to protect this world and then that world, never doing anything else!
Reply #53 Top
I know this isn't going to change, and I know the discussion about this has been beat to death in beta, but...

Personally, I think I would enjoy this type of game more if each system (each star with it's planets) were all on the same grid. Gravity wells would still be in place to determine where you could place structures, as well as affecting ships speeds. No phase lanes at all. The only jumping that would occur would be to get to other solar systems. It would make more 'sense' and be more realistic I would think.

I wouldn't know how to implement other game mechanics though to make it work properly. Maybe the planets could be closer together so ships didn't take ages to get to the next planet, or even enable ships to be able to warp on their own, while having the ability to use interdictor ships and interdictor type defenses to keep enemy ships from getting too far into your own empire.
Reply #54 Top
I dunno, the whole mechanics of phase jump inside a single star system V between stars aside, it does appear that something is borked in relation to the AI. I have played several games, big and small and the AI (even on hard in either research or aggressive modes) is seemingly all seeing and does this hopscotch dance with you (But not other AIs I noticed) no matter the scenario. This is on top of it often crapping out in research efforts (though it will go full tilt boogie in expanding it's fleet points to match your expansion). It always seems to be able to mobilize and meanuver a fleet in behind your main fleet... and if you split up into operating fleets so that you have several big fleets, it still stays as one and just goes after one planet then the next (even if you are hitting 3 or 4 at once and raping him). The AI refuses to act and stand against your fleets even if it's being raped or it's capital is going down... makes no sense.

Summarize AI Faults (i have seen)
1) The differentiation between difficulty levels and types seems nil. Turtles don't turtle, aggressive never acts militant than the others ai types, etc.
2) AI research is borked... they never go all the way, they stop once some trigger or breaking/tipping point is achieved. If I had to guess, looking at post game charts, its an income trigger.
3) The AI is 100% chicken and defensive militarily, to the point that it will not defend itself if it means facing you in any kind of fleet battle that is remotely 'even'.
4) The AI fails to defend it's worlds... it doesn't build
5) The AI doesn't appear to upgrade it's caps much and given it's innability to
6) It sure seems like the AI has any sense to fleet balance and structure... it just builds until it runs out of points and with it's all seeing eye plants them closest to yours so it can jump past you and rape you if you move. Beyond that it uses about 2 - 5% of it's points in scout frigates and about 10% mid to late game (more early one) in a single small raider force to attack worlds it can reach beyond your fortified frontier (which is of course a problem since it's impossible to stop anyone from bypassing supposed choke points at will).

Sorry, but this AI is IMHO pretty awful. The only challenge comes from the fact that it is all seeing and perfect in economic management compared to what you can do so you are early game always up against it and it's overwhelming force/strength (compared to yours) along with the pirates and raiders and what seems to be every single habitabal world having some kind of protective fleet around it by the neutrals (wtf is with that???). It can't actually build a decent fleet, it runs constantly even when running makes no sense (other times you can paint it as a 'brilliant' defense strategy, but I think it's mostly on accident), it never defneds itself, doesn't fully research things, etc.

And that's a shame because I am not likely to EVER play anyone online as I have neither the time for it, nor the patience to find like minded players who are more about even strategy and gamesmanship vs what I mostly find with RTS players are punks who bum rush as early as humanly possible with no eye on any kind of long game if they get beat in that first rush (and in many games, there is often no effective means to beat an early rush, and that includes this game it appears).

My hope: Mods and creative players plus IronClad address balance issues and the AI and make it so that the game, with all of it's great potential, becomes what players want it to be. Just build the mod tools in the game darnit! Let us adjust everything through the UI that can be adjusted and make the mod tools focus on NEW elements (graphics, ships, mechanics, etc).
Reply #55 Top
All very good points.