Suggestion to improve ***Starbases*** in GC2 / Dark Avatar

Wouldn't use of rally points eliminate the management issue of directing newly built constructors to the right destination?

You could set up rally points such that all of your planets building constructors could go to the same starbase to bulk it up with modules. Or you could set it up so each planet's newly minted constructor goes to a different starbase to add modules (a slower way of building up starbases, but you build all of them up fairly evenly.

What I'd like to see is something along the lines of a starbase management screen. When I've got more than a handful of starbases it is hard for me to keep track of who has what modules installed, and help me figure out which ones still need more module upgrades. This is the starbase management problem I run into frequently. I find that I need to keep these stats using pencil and paper (yuck!). Kind of like the colony management screen, only different.

You could make a moderately high tech device (Ie, something you can't research for quite a while) that gives a construction pod/device to Starbases that could after a couple of upgrades with Constructors, allow the starbase to build upgrades itself. But it would have to be a limited amount of construction ability, or expensive, or it could become too easy to build up a massive network of mega-upgraded starbases. Currently it is a bit of a chore updating them, but you always have limited resources when it comes to churning out the Constructors, so you often have to focus on a few at at time, instead of the whole lot. Which isn't a bad thing I think. Of course, if you're playing on the massive maps, and you have dozens of starbases, I assume it's a nightmare upgrading them! I stick to smaller maps so I never worry about more than a few at once.

Maybe a better idea would be to allow an advanced construction module that will allow for more than just one module to be added at a time. Conversely you could remove the "one module per constructor" limit, it's probably the easiest way to overhaul the system.

To address the valid complaint that starbases are too fragile, maybe for every shipbuilding tech you research (from medium -> large -> huge) you could add a module called "Starbase Superstructure" that benefits HP. I know it's not likely moddable from what I've seen and might not be possible for DA, but perhaps GC3?

The self-upgrade tech idea is very interesting to me, but I'm guessing it is not possible for GCII, period. Maybe if a starbase is in the ZOC of one of the new asteriod mines?

A starbase management page would be *awesome*, as would an auto-move setting for constructors to Upgrade Nearest Base and a flag for shipyards to auto-launch constructors.

@ Mister Boom: have you tried assembling constructor fleets? I'm a big-map player and in the late game I tend to use a mixture of rally points at base sites and fleet points--I use the fleets to quick-build in enemy territory, mostly trying to seize resource nodes.

Want to second the vote for some sort of starbase management interface, although I would guess the easiest way to code it would be a third, bases, tab on the ships/planets button. This should allow you to sort bases by attack and defense ratings (see who needs a weapons module), ship attack & defense boosts (shows what mil base needs upgrading), trade / production bonuses (for econ bases), sensor range, influence % bonus, type, name, module space available, and number of modules installed. Unless I forgot something else that you'd want to know about a base.

The quantity of info outlined above is the reason I'd prefer to see a base listing like the ships and planets one. It seems to me to be too many columns for the colony management screen type interface, and coding a new interface section is probably more toruble than it's worth. So, please add a starbase list to the ship/planet button for DA.

Edit: One day I'll learn to type

If the deep space resources and the entire starbase code was removed from the design, the game would still function.

Think about it. It's chrome. And it's just tedious. It's also potentially unbalancing with all the stacking modifiers.

Starbase implementation remains the one thing I've never liked since the original GC for OS/2.

I agree. In fact I've nearly stopped playing GC2 due to the repetivive task of "upgrade"/"Upgrade"/"upgrade" them. Its tedious and boring (at least for me)

I too find the use of a singel constructor for each upgrade to be way too time intensive, but from a playability aspect perhaps the most worrying thing is that due to the effort involved their are many upgrades that I rarely ever make just because its not worthi it. Specifically scanners, its just too much effort to build scanning arrays when you can just pop a bunch on a ship and move it anywhere you want. I for one think that scanners should automatically upgrade on starbases, that way you only need to use one module. If that were to happen I might actually start using them. Also weapons, I never arm my starbases because it takes way too much and their too fragile, I think autoupgrading after the first weapons installment is the best way to go.

I like the idea of removing the 1 construction module limit. This would have an "exponential" effect like the rest of the game. Let me illustrate:

In the early game, your cargo hulls have 55? points of space for modules, while a constructor module uses 35 so you could only have 1 to start with anyway. As you prgress and get into the miniturization techs, I beleive you can get upwards of 120 points of available space on a cargo hull, which would only allow 3, but the ship would have to sacrifice speed or range as 3x35=105 (I only say speed or range since I don't put defense, sensor or weapon modules on my constructors). I would likely build constructors with only 2 construction modules since I like having fast ships.

This would keep the starbase upgrades at a checked pace early on so as not to give the player too huge an advantage, but as you gain new techs and your economy, military, influence, etc grows exponentially, this would allow you to take advantage of more of the advanced starbase modules.

Another idea would be a new module that gives 2 construction points (kind of like the advanced troop module). This one could be heavier, maybe take up 80 space on a cargo hull and make it come with a tech along the starbase defense line. I put it there in the tech tree so that maybe starbase defense will be a more attractive tech. The general feeling I get from the forum is that its worthless to put attack and defense mods on a starbase because of the investment required for such little combat gain.

I don't know if I would call a fully armed and shielded Starbase "frail".

As annoying as having to send constructor after constructor to build up a starbase might be, it does force the player to balance whether he will build fleets for combat or build starbases to augment his empire. Thats the kind of strategic decision one should expect to have to make in a game like this. Guns or butter.

I do like the idea of having a tech that you can research that would allow two modules on a constructor, but I am afraid that more than two might be unbalancing.

The Advanced Constructor Module is a great idea. A Starbase Management screen would rock aswell.

I think Starbases would become far more worth the effort if they could be repaired. Otherwise its pointless. After three or four attacks even the most powerfull Starbases are severely compromised.

i think that maby if you upgrade a space station alot it should act as a low grade planit

I agree that the starbase aspect of the game becomes tedious as your empire expands. Another problem (short of the dreaded "paper and pencil" method) is remembering which starbases need what upgrade. Is their an available production upgrade for that mining base? Does that starbase have any defenses? Etc. etc. I end up clicking on each one to find out, or else sending a constructor there and hitting "cancel" when I realize that the only improvement I can make is to add sensors (which I don't want). I like the idea of a management screen. How about, also, iconic indicators such as found on the planets (showing an idle starport, for instance) to indicate different aspects of the Star Base being "maxed out" or "ready for an upgrade"?

A suggestion...you can rename your starbases - come up with a mnemonic code to put in the name that you will easily understand to indicate what mods it has or needs. That way you can see at a glance when scrolling over it what it has or needs.

Not an ideal solution, but one that may help.

The mnemonic is OK until you are in a gigantic galaxy with 20-30 starbases. It then becomes tedious to scroll over to the starbase, look at its current name and decode it to figure out what you need. Assuming of course that you remember where all of those starbases are.

Very definitely for the larger maps a starbase management screen is needed. Until then, its up to pencil and paper.

Well I hope they do something. I haven't used starbases for ages because I just can't be bothered. Even when there's a nice economic starbase next to my home world it invariably ends up in the hands of the enemy! I suppose I am at least grateful that the game is easily playable without using starbases. I hope all of you - who are disillusioned with the starbase part of the game realise this and don't as one poster has said - let this aspect of the game prevent you from continuing to play!

Although I agree the advanced constructer idea is better I really hate the whole constructor concept beyond the inital build. Perhaps the devs could create a starbase upgrade beam centre, which can be built onto a unit on a planet. Then when it is fully charged, you can target a starbase within a certain distance and zap it with the laser to upgrade the damn things! It would be cool to watch from the space view.. the planet shooting the pesky starbase! Anything to do away with the whole building a ship, then sending ship, then repeat endlessly! Please GOD!

I say all of that with great affection, for a game that I play nearly every day though, so don't take it to heart devs

How about a system whereby a constructor is required for the intitial construction and then a convoy system is set up like with the freighters for trade. The idea being that as long as a convoy is running you can spend cash to upgrade your starbases. This would allow players to attack each others convoys in order to isolate starbases from upgrades while at the same time freeing the player from the tedium of building a dozen constrcutors for each starbase.

hope all of you - who are disillusioned with the starbase part of the game realise this and don't as one poster has said - let this aspect of the game prevent you from continuing to play!

Hey, I said nearly! The game is so good that its impossible stop playing totally

Anyway there are some great ideas here, I hope someone take notice of this.

Another vote for the Starbase Management Interface, I myself enjoy the starbase building function of the game.

How bout allowing the trading post upgrade for mining and military starbases, maybe with the Master Trader tech. It makes sense that these other starbase types would have minimal trading capacity.

Another suggestion would do away with the resource icons, the game is very stimulating visually in other aspects why not use anomaly graphics to show off the different resources?

Love the game!

Someone mentioned in another thread, that adjusting the Hit Points of the starbases upwards would give them a fighting chance against an attacking "super" fleet. I think that allowing a constructor to add 10-20 hit points instead of a module might be a good compromise. Investing 5 constructors to add an average of 75 HP's to bring the station over 100 Hp's would give a Starbase a chance against a "super fleet". It would be able to take enough damage to fight multiple rounds and possibly wreck the attacking fleet or survive.

I think that allowing a constructor to add 10-20 hit points instead of a module might be a good compromise

*Something* along these lines would sure be swell. I'm having too much fun clawing my way back from the bottom in a long game, and resource bases have been the linchpin of my survival (I made out like a bandit after the first big war between leading AIs). I think I'd be much closer to winning if I could have invested in adding hit points to a couple of key bases that got wiped. Instead, I've lost one to an ally and am struggling to rebuild others.