Thank you.  Just wanted to make sure this was still a priority.  Also, about the 9 hour quote from Daiwa... Take a look on when I first started this tread and then come back.

As for this forum being a place for support... seems to me that 99% of all the posts on here are about problems that users are having with WB, so it would be a good idea for SD to just start considering this forum as a good starting point for viewing all the problem complaints and dealing with them in that "queue" that everyone likes to talk about.  Keep in mind that when I called in these issues when WB5 first came out the tech on the phone stated that they would look into them... how long ago was that... must be a really large queue huh.

Like I said, I realize this is not the only problem you guys are trying to figure out, just wanted to bring this back up top and hope to make it a priority again.  Hack, if I lived close enough to you I'd come in personally (laptop in tow) to show you the issues, but alas I do not so I have to do it through these forums.

Now I have to get off of here because my leg is buring up due to my CPU always running at full steam.

Name one other person here at WC that signs off with his name after a post. It's just not the way people post here at WC.

DW In the High Desert of Central Oregon AMD x2 4400 2gig OCZ Platinum ram nvida GeForce 7800 gtx v.81.98 Windows XP pro sp2

I tried to resist. And failed again

Neil, any progress yet?

Just to clarify again.  If I use any of the first 2 skins provided by Microsoft the speed stepping is not an issue.  It's only when I apply a skin other then Windows Classic or Windows XP.

Bump to the top of the pile.  Fix this and I'll stop bothering you guys...

Bump to the top again...

Bump to the top again...

. . . because bumping always gets it fixed faster.

This has now been checked out on a laptop with a turion processor and no problems were encountered.

The cpu speed dropped back as expected to 800Mhz from 1.8Ghz.  Having WB5 running made no difference at all.  Though the proper processor driver had to be installed as out of the box the laptop did no speed adjustments with or without WB installed.

. . . because bumping always gets it fixed faster

This has now been checked out on a laptop with a turion processor and no problems were encountered.

And there I am. . . wrong again.

Let's all do the bump! Bump . . .bump . . . do the bump.

Was it a Turion64 ML-37?

Well, I'm running out of ideas here... just tried uninstalling and reinstalling the latest beta and still no go.  With WB unloaded everything is normal.  Load it up and CPU just maxes it's speed.

When you checked the speed did you check it before and after you loaded WB5.  (Obviously I probably don't have to tell you that if you saw 800MHz on the System Properties screen and left that up while loading WB you know it's not going to update the speed.)  With that out of the loop, something has to be up.  Have the latest AMD driver for the core... don't know what's causing this, but it's definatly tied into WB5.

What do you need to know about my system to try and fix this... this is getting anoying.

This is starting to piss me off.  Here's a paste of the sys info screen.  I'm uninstalling WB5 as of right now... I can't deal with the bullshit battery life with the maxed speed on the laptop.  This is a definate problem on my laptop.  A complete reload of the OS didn't even fix this.  You guys need to seriously put this version throught the ringer... you've got serious problems here.  Hell, you don't even enable WB5 to have an uninstall... you have to use SDC to do it.  Even then it leaves behind the file wbsys.dll and other registry entries.  Gotta love that.

WindowBlinds 5.0 System Information Report:

STATUS : WB+ SRV+ HLP+ UI+ TRAY+

WindowBlinds is installed correctly on this PC.

WindowBlinds appears to be activated on this PC

Your machine supports per pixel borders on WindowBlinds skins.

You have one monitor in total.

(Default Monitor) 1 is attached to ATI MOBILITY RADEON X700

Wblind.dll      2006/02/10 19:33:34
Wbsrv.dll      2006/02/05 12:58:22
Wbconfig.exe      2005/12/05 18:42:52
Wbload.exe      2006/01/19 16:19:18
Wbhelp.dll      2004/09/18 16:37:00
Wbui.dll      2005/12/06 21:29:06
Tray.dll      2005/11/02 13:28:26

I think it was probably 1 model down from the ML-37 as it maxes at 1.8Ghz not 2.0Ghz like yours, but all the AMD chips will be the same apart from the frequency they run at.

Speed checks were done with the AMD utility to monitor such things.

I would ensure you have the latest video drivers & chipset drivers on your PC as it may be one of those is preventing the slowdown on your laptop for some reason.

 

Yes, latest ATI Mobility 6.2 driverset.  Latest BIOS and all other drivers... I'm anal about things like that.  I update stuff every month.  This problem has been there since the very beginning.  I cannot vouch for what the AMD utility will show because I haven't tested it with that.  If you could, please check the speed by using Properties on My Computer (do the test again obviously, unload WB, check the speed, should be lowest, load up wb/skin and check the speed again).  This is how I'm showing the speed issues... maybe it's just related to that?... who knows, I've given up on trying to find a pattern here, just uninstalled WB5 for now.  My battery life was getting killed.

If you install via SDC then clearly you uninstall via SDC too.

Standalone versions of WB install via an installer & uninstall via Add/Remove Programs.

Your report is the only report of anything like this which makes it somewhat difficult for us to even attempt to debug.  Nobody I know has an Acer laptop like yours and obviously Stardock are not about to go and purchase one.

We have ruled it out being a problem with Turion cpus in general and if you have just done a clean reinstall of the OS without installing anything else but WB before testing again then we have ruled out additional apps on your PC UNLESS the clean OS was a factory reinstall in which case it might come with a lot of junk.

If it works with WB 4.6 and not 5.0 then the biggest change in WB 5 was per pixel skin support, but you have said this happens with or without per pixel skins.  I ought to ask if the non per pixel skins had per pixel taskbars or start buttons as that could have an impact.

The other thing to do is to put WB into inclusion only mode (and add explorer to the list).  This would stop WB skinning anything other than explorer.  This would eliminate the possibility of WB upsetting some other app on the PC which is making it stop slowing down.

Another thought is WB5 fades the default button in & out.  I assume when testing you do not have a default button visible thats fading in & out.

Finally the only other thing I can think of is WB has a multimedia timer but that uses almost 0 cpu and only runs every 10 seconds.  However it does have a requested accuracy of 1ms so I will see if we can reduce the requested accuracy and see if that helps you or not.  It should have no impact, but it is something WB4 did not have.

You must use the AMD tool to monitor cpu speeds as the properties menu option from My Computer can be impacted by even the smallest increase of cpu usage when that window is shown on screen.

Realtime monitoring is the only way to test this.

I'll try and do some realtime monitoring for you to give you as much info as possible.  However, with WB5 unloaded I can do Properties on My Computer and it shows the proper droped-down speed as it should.  What does that multimedia timer do for WB5?  Just wondering...  Let me download the AMD app for core speed monitoring and I'll post my findings.  Thanks.

OK, here's the skinny.  Downloaded and installed AMD Power Monitor.  Without reinstalling WB5 I did some system testing and it's reporting 800MHz as it should whenever nothing is going on.  Generally speaking the core also stays at 0% when you're not doing anything.  Properties of My Computer also displays 800MHz when nothing is going on.

Now, reloaded WB5 via SDC.  Tried all the default skins, no matter what they were.  With WB5 loaded the AMD PM still displays a proper speed of 800MHz at idle, but there's a 7% spike in core activity every few seconds... no real pattern to it from what I can tell.  If you start doing stuff the Frequency of course goes up and then back down.  Properties of My Computer displays a constant 2.0GHz no matter how well you try and time the check.  So, where the problem is... I don't know, but I do know that it's there.  What I have seen is that the Frequency on the AMD PM does spike to 2.0GHz just as the system is trying to pull up the My Computer Properties.  With WB5 unloaded it doesn't spike as high.  Maybe this is causing it to show the max speed.  I just don't know how quickly and at what frequency XP takes that speed rating snapshot when it's displaying for you in the Properties screen.

Anyway, I'm at a loss... here's an ever wackier thing... for some reason the fan is at a higher speed and blowing out hotter air when WB5 is loaded... despite what the AMD PM shows and my battery time also is less.  With WB5 unloaded things go back to normal.  It's almost as if XP's CPU info and AMD PM's are totally different... but that's not possible.  Like I said... WEIRD.

Based on your post it seems like the AMD chip is downclocking correctly.  The only reason the System properties page is showing a higher speed is because it did a single measurement just when the cpu was busy showing the new window.

As for why the machine is running hotter, it could be that the graphics chip is running at a higher speed.  That would explain the lower battery life and the faster fans.  Having something semi transparent on the screen could account for this as many drivers use the 3D pipeline for this and may up clock speeds when this is used.

I believe there is usually a power setting (power mizer?) for the ATI chips which lets you pick some power settings.  Try setting it to the lowest possible option and see if that makes any difference.  The ATI Control Center may also show you the current clock speeds of the chip.

Video card ATI X700 core and mem clocks stay the same no matter the setting for PowerPlay on the ATI drivers or what's running on the system.  Can you do me a favor?  Can you at least check that the other laptop you guys have behaves the same way when you try and read the CPU speed via Properties on My Computer.  If it does the same thing for you then we know for sure that's exactly what it is.  I'm not doubting that the misrepresented speed is because of a quick snapshot by the system at the instant that the properties are pulled up (which according to the AMD power meter utility is exactly when the speed spikes to the reported one)... I just want to be sure it does it on yours as well.  More of a peace of mind thing.  Thanks.

Ok.. I thought I might as well just drop in my 2 cents ... but I need to make it clear that I have not read all of the replies....

That being said, I would just like to make sure I have the problem at hand understood. You have an AMD Ferrari 4005 and each time you go into system properties while windows blinds 5 is loaded, you get 2.0GHz as the cpu speed? (on Laptop/Batter power mode).

Well if that is the case, I thought I should let you know that I have the exact same laptop and I do get that too, but I am sometimes able to catch it at 1.6GHz. I am currently also running RM clock which shows me a display of my current clock speed, and that does not increase to 2.0GHz when I check system properties. I have also unloaded WB5 and have repeated the tests and they turn out the same way. I tend to get 2.0GHz in System Properties while my RM clock monitor stays constant at 800mhz (except that it sometimes jumps to 1.6GHz).

Anyways, my take on this issue is that there is some conflict with windows XP reporting the speed and the Turion processors (which is likely as Turion cpus are newer thatn windows XP).

Anyways.. hope this helps a bit.


Adrian T

Holy crap!!! Finally someone with a Ferrari!  Actually I sometimes catch it at 1.6 as well... what I've seen is that the CPU speed spikes a fraction of a second before the Properties gets displayed.  Apperently XP is taking the snapshot at this exact point and that's why I'm seeing the higher speeds when in fact it's just a spike.  The issue is that without WB5 loaded I don't have a problem displaying the lower 800MHz speed at idle in system properties.  The speed just doesn't spike like it does with WB5.  The issue here of course could be with the added processing power needed to bring up a skinned window vs a non-skinned window.  At least that's what I have chocked it up to for the immediate moment... although I'm still not liking the overall aspect of things.  I guess I'm just a stickler for perfection.

As for you not seeing the lower speeds yourself... do you have the AMD Turion driver loaded up in XP?  If you do, with WB5 unloaded you should have no problem seeing 800MHz in the system properties screen when you check it after a few seconds at idle.

BTW, thanks for chiming in... I thought I was the only one here with this type of laptop.  At least now Neil can see that more then just one person is seeing what I am seeing.  Maybe now I won't look so crazy...

I am glad I could have been of some help. I can catch 800MHz when I set all of my settings back to normal. I have tweaked this laptop to use lower voltages at 800MHz to squeeze out as much battery life as I can, and I know that these settings affect my readout in system properties. I have also used different programs to monitor CPU speed, and they all have been reading somewhat constant at 800MHz with WB5 loaded and me checking the system properties. It looks like the system properties is the only thing that is registering this spike of cpu speed.

On my end, the only readings that spike are the CPU and OS readouts in RM clock. This leads me to believe that the system properties readout isn't very well tuned, and that any spike in load would maybe 'fool' it into thinking that the clock has also gone up.

After more testing though, on the odd occation, I also noticed that the clock speed that is monitored by RM clock also spikes. This only happens if I wait a a few moments between each time I bring up system properties. So, it does look like that there is a small insignificant spike occuring when bringing up system properties. It could possibly be the extra processing needed to bring up a skinned window.. Or it could just be the extra power needed by the computer when checking for the system info such that is displayed in system properties.

Anyways, I think that a better understanding of how system properties checks the processor speed is needed to fully be able to answer this question.

But, in the mean time, enjoy your nice Ferrari!

So, it does look like that there is a small insignificant spike occuring when bringing up system properties. It could possibly be the extra processing needed to bring up a skinned window..

That's exactly what it is from my findings.  This is what's causing the higher then normal speed postings in system properties.  This spike doesn't register with WB5 unloaded which to me indicates that a skinned window is harder to bring up rather then a non-skinned or XP Themes (native XP) skinned window.  I think that overall there is much room for improvement in speed optimization of WB5 even with it's PerPixel features and whatnot.