again...why play a race that starts with no tech

Difficulty level?

Well, when you speak about bugs, I suppose you are refering to Thalan who start with lots of tech.

I don't think any of the starting races has been set in stone yet either.

It would be VERY nice to get this "balanced" before the last public beta. I'm at a HUGE disadvantage if I'm a custom race against these others. They can expand at least twice as fast as I could.

If all the races are balanced . . . what's the point of having different races?  I am barely good enough to win WITH techs . . but someday I may be good enough to handicap myself.

Balance doesn't mean identical. Same number of techs, but different techs might be a form of balance. For example, perhaps one of the warlike races should start with military research in some capacity. A more economically inclined race should start with advanced economic research of some sort. Things like that.

what's the point of having different races?

Well, for the AI, it allows to have different behaviors. And if races are balanced, it doesn't mean that the strategy to use is the same. It is a bit different to start with ion drive or without it, or to start with some miniaturization level than without it.

Balanced does not at all mean identical. For a great example, try StarCraft BroodWar. That game is generally regarded to be pretty much the best-balanced game of all times, and each of the three sides has a very different feel and strategy required for success. I'm not suggesting that all races be given the same starting techs, etc. What I am suggesting is that none of the races start with 8ish more techs than anyone else. They don't even have to have the proper pre-reqs in their tech list!

Stardock's already come up with a point system for the techs. It just takes giving each race a similar number of points, and counterbalancing any excess points with detriments elsewhere.

Why dont you start with your own race and start with the techs you want to start with. You can be anyone you want to be. You arer allowed a certain amount of tech points you can use anywhere, same as when you decide whether you want to boost research, diplomacy, weapons. Loooook at all the option screens in the race setup and find out what you can do before you complain about things you think you cant do, but you really can.

Why dont you start with your own race and start with the techs you want to start with. You can be anyone you want to be.

Loooook at all the option screens in the race setup and find out what you can do before you complain about things you think you cant do, but you really can.

At last check (yesterday), you have 200 pts for techs. Now, some techs take up more points than others, but in my setup, this buys 3 techs. Hyperdrive(50), xeno research(50), and planetary improvements(100). I could be off, as I'm at work ATM... I'll update when I get home.

Now, let's look at the yor, drath, etc... Some of the techs they have cost 200 points EACH! Several races have an impossible number of attribute bonuses for their 10 attribute points.

I suggest that before you blindly strike down my complaint, you do a bit of the same research you suggest I do.

I agree with the "balanced doesn't equal same" theory. Any fan of Star Trek can tell you that Klingons know war - and that's about it. They are horrible in their social development, diplomacy skills, and any tech that doesn't have to do with blowing sentients to bits. Vulcans are socially and diplomatically superior to almost all races and suffer when it comes to the very viceral art of war. Of course, that is the reason there are different win scenarios - you don't have to overcome your weakness to win, simply keep developing your strengths and apply them effectively to all other races. Klingons will raze every planet in their path and win a military victory. Vulcans would influence everyone that they are superior and win an influencial victory. The player simplky has to pick his starting race with care and stick with its' strengths, not developing anything outside of those strengths unless absolutely necessary.

As the edit function isn't working for me at the moment...

My techs are Hyperdrive(50), Xeno Engineering(50), and planetary improvements (100).

The thalians have...
Hyperdrive, ion drive, space militarization, galactic warfare, starship defenses, general life support, xeno economics, planetary improvements, xeno farm construction, xeno industrial theory, xeno engineering, and stellar cartography.

The tech balance seems a *bit* in their favor.

Then again, for now, a quick XML edit will fix everything. I think we'll all start with hyperdrive only... muahahahaha.

also have you considered like theres some techs no races have ?? get hyperdrive and universal translator techs those two lines can generally trade with races and if you trade for 1 or 2 techs per alien race you will close the gap and at least be equal. All it would take then is adequate research facilities and your off on tech lead.

I've noticed that you can play around with how other races are to you at the start of game... set them all to close if you want to do some trading after the first couple of turns That doesn't mean they will all stay buddy buddy with you, either. For now, enjoy the trades. Hope this helps, works for me.

Would like to start my own race, however the lack of a logistics ability usually means I end up getting waxed by fleets that much sooner.

I have played exclusively as a custom race and didn't even know why I was routinely getting my ass handed to me until I read this post. That explains a LOT... here I thought I just sucked really badly.