Bash2cool Bash2cool

should we make skins for making money?

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should we make skins for making money?

from WinCustomize Forums
Users in wincustomize.com make a lot of good skins and people even subscribe to wincustomize because of how good they are; but don't you think that they should get paid? They spend their own free time making skins for people to enjoy and download but the users who make them don't get nothing in return. Making skins are apart of some peoples lifes and some of these peolpe i bet at least 10 out of 100 don't have enough money to pay for their rent or pay their bills and taxes. I think that people who become subscribers should make skins for money and the who don't subcribe just make skins for free.----please send comments of what you think.

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55,401 views 52 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
since premium skins already exist bash2cool it would appear that people already are charging for their endeavours. perhaps the real question is whether the market would support this trend going mainstream. would i pay for a skin?. i already have. would i pay for more? i don't think so.

The question is then; what market? The private end user market? Or the Corporate market? Two quite different ones. I personally wouldn't set out to rely on selling skins to the private market. The corporate, well,.. this is something I'm planning to have alook into next year when I've completed my studies.
Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top
~


should we make skins for making money?


In a word.


Yes



~
Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think that people who become subscribers should make skins for money and the who don't subcribe just make skins for free.


Let me see... I subscribe so you wanna force me to skin but will pay me? okay - I need $800 a day plus expenses.
But... If I don't subscribe you wanna force me to skin for free? Yeah, right. I'll get right on it. Right after the several billion people who don't subscribe turn theirs in.
Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I wouldn't mind paying a little for for a skin, like a WindowBlind, Icon Package, etc. WinCustomize should setup a link at the artists WinCustomize web site where people can donate (cash by mail) to the artist a little if they want to.

I don't agree that it should only be a hobby though. Making things like GUI designs and themes for computers is pretty hard work. I can't see why people that make themes aren't treated like professionals like graphics designers that make graphics software for companies are. Theme designers make graphics designs that people can use to change the way their operating system's graphic user interface looks.
Mean, why can't someone make a little money making designs? I haven't gotten into actually making skins yet, and I just don't have the time to right now. But if or when I did, I don't think it would be a good idea to force somone to pay for something that I made. But a donation link would be okay since there would probably be enough kind people that would donate a little.
Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think that people who become subscribers should make skins for money and the who don't subcribe just make skins for free.


This is one of the biggest misconceptions anyone can have of this site. Subscribing to WC helps to support the website that in exchange allows users to upload/share their skins for others to download and use.
Purchasing a premium skin helps to support the author of the skin and shows your appreciation to such author for his time and work.
But at the end of the day it all boils down to this;
If you like/want to buy the skin, by all means do so. If you don’t like/don’t want to buy the skin, then DON'T BUY IT. Period.
It doesn’t get any simpler than that.
Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Everyone has the right to sell their work/creations. No one has an obligation to buy it.

There are a lot of customs "skins" for many programs and many "themes" for the Object Desktop programs. Some of them are high quality others are 'first attempts' or something the 'artist' threw together. But they all take time. And time is money.

I am new to skinning, OK, not even skinning, I am new to applying someone else's skinning to my desktop. I downloaded a DesktopX theme and applied it to my system. I tweaked it to suit my preferences, and even that has taken up several hours of my time. I believe the creator when he says he has over 300 hours of his time into it. At California's minimum wage @ 300 hours, that would be over $2000. This skin has 60,000 downloads, so, that is a price of 3 and a half cents for each download to break even. Of course grafics artists don't work for minimum wage, and not every skin/theme will get 60,000 downloads.

If I were to create my own theme I would not expect to get paid for my time. If I had made 20-30 themes and have been getting better with each one, and by now other users are requesting features, and my time is becoming more focused on this skin/theme and I am meeting these requests and now producing quality work, it might be time to think about selling my work.

Several problems come to mind....

1)As a "new to the customizing scene" user, I am not going to purchase something that I have no idea what it even is. I might even get turn away from the whole thing if I see that it requires money. Picture someone downloading trial Stardock software and going to the website and seeing that not only will he/she need to purchase the software, they will also have to purchace the skins. This could cost Stardock since that person doesn't want something that is a money vacuum. OK, some will find the free section, but how good of quality is in the free section now that people are wanting to sell their work?

2)Once one person purchases a skin, theoretically, now everyone has access to it. It can be shared via email or other skinning sites. Albeit not legally. Are you, the skinner, going to be able or willing to take further actions in finding the 'leak' and taking them to court siting copyright and DRM laws?

3)I have seen some 'premium' skins that incorporate Trademarked figures. Are there TM laws regarding the unautherized use of those images? I am sure that if you create a Superman theme and use it for personal use DC comics will not mind, but once you use Superman's image and likeness for profit, you could be treading thin water with copyright and trademark laws. Of course, all original content would be fine to sell. But how much is original? Can I download several themes/skins and combine the features that I like to create a single skin/theme and call it mine?

The original question was "Should we make skins for making money?", I say by all means, if you feel you have a product that you can sell, then sell it. I do not, however, suggest someone quit their job to become a skinner. Unless Stardock hires you and pays you to skin, it is not likely to pay the bills. Which is why you are not going to see 'premium' skins/themes from me, I can not afford to spend 8 hours each day on skinning. Time, really is money.
Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
1) That is the reason why trial versions are offered, so the public can try/test the product before deciding to purchase it or not. As it stands right now there are over 5,000 free skins between WindowBlinds, IconPacks and Cursors against a dozen or so premium skins/sets. Also, not every artist gets to make premium skins there for the quality of the free skins will not be compromised, yet the quality and features of a premium skins tends to be much higher than the free ones.

2) Authors of these premium skins have and will seek legal action against those that illegally distribute their work. Websites and domains have been shutdown for housing and distributing these skins, then again the number of such cases is minimum, mostly because people are not so thrilled about purchasing a skin and emailed it to someone that wants to get it for free. Every so often I get an email from someone asking me to send them the premium iconpack or skin they saw on one of my screenshots, to which I reply with the link to the site where they can purchase. ( I get a kick out that )

3) Trademark/Copyright material is very hard to profit from in form of premium skins/themes. A corporation or website will not house these skins for fear of legal actions taken against them. Unless the legal holder of such material has licensed or granted permission for the use and distribution of such material.
Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It's a big world with many people. There is room for "free" skins and "purchasable" skins without there being a compromise in quality for either. Just my opinion.
Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top
There doesn't have to be a wall between hobby and business. There's no better example than the Homestar Runner Link guys who started making cartoons to teach themselves Flash, and now the sales of merchandise allowed them to quit their day jobs and do the website exclusively. They also do some freelance Flash stuff, including the Mellow Mushroom website Link.
Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top


#20 by Super Wizop Hippy
Mon, June 27, 2005 0:45 PM

"Skinning is a hobby, not a career"
Nice gallery, did you spend a lot of time on your skins?




Why are putting you it on this level? I got more than 200 skins online (Skinbase with 241 uploads probably has most of them), so I´m more right than others? That´s nothing else but locker room politics for 14 year olds.

As I am working as an engineer and share my skins for free. I don´t give a f**k about what others do. "Professional skinning" is not even third class when i compare it with the quality level of real designers work.
Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don´t give a f**k about what others do. "Professional skinning" is not even third class when i compare it with the quality level of real designers work.


The same freedom that allows your opinion, allows Hippy his freedom of speech ...er script.

-My opinion
Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top
"Professional skinning" is not even third class when i compare it with the quality level of real designers work.


That's because there's a world of difference between Engineer Design and GUI Designs. It will be absurd to compare the two.
Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Why are putting you it on this level?

I could make the claim that golfing is a hobby and shouldn't be  career. Yet I've never once picked up a golf club in my life, so I'm hardly qualified to make a solid claim on the issue.

Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top
That's because there's a world of difference between Engineer Design and GUI Designs. It will be absurd to compare the two.


True. For example the io WindowBlinds skin (part of a paysuite)Link is a combination of a rather "generic" plastic and the Metal Navbar 1 Photoshop tutorial by theWebMachine Link.
It´s a good looking skin, i actually really like Hippy´s semi-cartoonic style. It is not that impressive though, everyone (including me) can follow a tutorial.
Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The woodwork must feel a little lonely today...
Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm not really a windowblinds/vs-skinner etc.. I only make a wall every once in a while but I can imagine that authors would enjoy it if they receive some money for their hard work.
I'm not saying that all skins of a author has to be premium-skins, but maybe like 10 percent or so.
The skins where the hardest work got into. But I wouldn't ask much I think about 5 dollar.
Skinning is a hobby after all...
Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It is not that impressive though, everyone (including me) can follow a tutorial.


Actually not everyone can follow a tutorial. I (personally) know of many people that can’t follow a tutorial even after I sat with them and guide them thru the process. Also, not every one has the necessary program/s to create the graphics. In addition to this, not everyone has the time, patience or the artistic skills to create a theme/skin.
WindowBlinds alone are getting harder to make as new features are been added. A simple WB that used to take a few days to make now takes weeks. That is why you don’t see as many WB uploaded as you did before.
Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top

True. For example the io WindowBlinds skin (part of a paysuite)Link is a combination of a rather "generic" plastic and the Metal Navbar 1 Photoshop tutorial by theWebMachine Link.
It´s a good looking skin, i actually really like Hippy´s semi-cartoonic style. It is not that impressive though, everyone (including me) can follow a tutorial

It's not always about making the most impressive skin or even the most usuable (although if you manage to mix those two together it will almost always be a winner). Premium skins, I feel, should be something slightly different. Io isn't even anywhere near the graphical leagues of Skins factory, and it's not a minimalist fast Msstyle-esque piece. There's better looking skins out there for sure, but the design of that one in particular, is slighty different from the norm.
In saying that, there can be a market for all types. Tim Dagger has some premium suites out that mix both graphically unique pieces, and straight-forward usable ones too.

Even if there are better skins out there for free, people have a right to charge for their work. Even if the skin bites big time. If people don't like it, they won't buy it, it's no big loss.

Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ok this is getting stupid. If people want money for doing this or that so be it.

But just because you spend time doing something, doesnt mean you should get money for it. Pretty soon people will want money for breathing.

The concept of a simple "hobby" is falling in the name of capitalism . But so be it, Skinners can start charging collectively, and while they at it, they can watch the skinning community die, because customizing my gui is as much of a hobby to me as creating the skins is a hobby to you. We dont need your skins to survive
Reply #45 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The concept of a simple "hobby" is falling in the name of capitalism . But so be it, Skinners can start charging collectively, and while they at it, they can watch the skinning community die, because customizing my gui is as much of a hobby to me as creating the skins is a hobby to you. We dont need your skins to survive

Yes...you can always get off your collective arses and make your own skins.

You don't get paid for breathing.....because everyone does it.

Similarly you don't NEED to pay for skins....ESPECIALLY if you can make your own.

IF you want one that someone charges for...well bugger me....you can always steal it.

That's why God invented P2P.

Reply #46 from WinCustomize Forums Top

skining is not a carrier? boy! what I do for leaving then?

Skining IS MY CARRIER since almost 4 years now ( I am a 50 years old man and have a family with 3 kids to support) and I believe that Pixtudio clients are happy, because they continue to come over the years.

I was the first person to make a skin for sell and I must say, some people should review their concepts...

I have a hobby, I am a sport fisheman...a pay for my fishing takle, I pay for the boat that takes me to fish....I pay for everything....thinking this way, maybe they should give me all that for free, right?

Being a professional skiner didn't made me stop skinning for fun, every extra time I find, I do it for my pleasure and sare with others.

I never felt guity for that, the skins that Pixtudio sells are just to cover the web site costs, on where, we share over 500 files for free.

Im my opinion, this issue is very simple....you think that people shouldn't sell skins? don't buy it. GO! GO!

 

Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Right on Treetog!
Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Renato puts it well...
Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top
well can't skinnning be a hobby and a career at the same time? i mean what's the big deal? can't they still have money for what their doing even if it is for fun?
Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I really like it when Moshi (most generous skinner of all) comes here once in a while and hits some people right into the face. way to go, moshi... go stay at that oasis site, you fit well in there.