Secondary not responding in time?

from Stardock Forums

I am using Multiplicity 3.6 pro on two laptops both connected wirelessly to my WiFi. Both machines are Windows 11.

Multiplicity frequently (several times an hour) reports that connection "has been lost due to the secondary not responding in time". 

How do I diagnose/fix this issue?

Thanks! I love Multiplicity.

multiplicity
14,939 views 25 replies
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

I've also been facing this issue, but if anything its been an ongoing issue for a few years; 

My main question is, does Multiplicity have a log file system? 

I'd love to see a clear report issue as sometimes I'll be using the second computer and it will time out the connection only to reconnect within seconds.  

*I've done the connection issues pages' steps and still not resolved the issue

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting sam38, reply 2

I've also been facing this issue, but if anything its been an ongoing issue for a few years; 

My main question is, does Multiplicity have a log file system? 

I'd love to see a clear report issue as sometimes I'll be using the second computer and it will time out the connection only to reconnect within seconds.  

*I've done the connection issues pages' steps and still not resolved the issue
End of sam38's quote

Hello,
I have forwarded your problem/question to Stardock Support Team for their assistance. Please keep an eye on this thread for any updates. We appreciate your feedback and patience.

Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

For either report, and since this seems to be easily repeatable, can a test be done where each PC is on Ethernet?

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Thank you. It's not possible for me to test via Ethernet since the two laptops in this situation don't have ethernet jacks. Wifi is my use-case...

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

For my issue - both my machines are connected via ethernet - I've also run tests to see for connection loss, both computers don't lose connection to the internet or each other on the network

 

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

Please let me know whatever else we need to do to diagnose this issue. I experienced more than 15 Multiplicity drops during my workday today. 

Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top

Hello,
I have forwarded your problem/question again to Stardock Support Team for their assistance. Please keep an eye on this thread for any updates. We appreciate your feedback and patience.

Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

+1 Loading…
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 8

Please let me know whatever else we need to do to diagnose this issue. I experienced more than 15 Multiplicity drops during my workday today. 
End of vogelap's quote

I am afraid that a wireless-only test environment is not one we are going to be able to help with much - there are just too many variables we can't control.  Please follow the progress below.

Quoting sam38, reply 2

I've also been facing this issue, but if anything its been an ongoing issue for a few years;
End of sam38's quote

Can you quantify this for me, Sam..? How often is this happening?

What are the versions of Windows for each? Restrict testing and reporting on just 2 PCs, please.  However, if there are others that 'work just fine', we want to know this.

Are both PCs on the exact same version and build (About tabs)?  What is that version and build?

Can you create the fail conditions at will..?  Or, no, is it completely random?

When it happens, is either PC under a considerable load (file transfers, game running, app installation, etc)?

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

 

 

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Hi Sean. Thanks for Multiplicity. It's a necessary part of my toolbox!

You asked Sam for information. I am going to provide mine too in case it helps...

Work Laptop: Latitude 5320 16gb memory, running Windows 11 Pro (version 23H2). Multiplicity version 3.6 build 00105.pro. Wifi connected. This is the Secondary for Multiplicity.

Personal Laptop: HP 14-dq1xxx, 16gb memory, running Windows 11 Pro (version 23H2). Multiplicity version 3.6 build 00105.pro. Wifi connected. This is the Primary for Multiplicity.

Personal Desktop: PowerSpec G469 16gb memory, running Windows 11 Pro (version 23H2). Multiplicity version 3.6 build 00105.pro. Ethernet & Wifi are both connected. This is the Primary for Multiplicity.

When it happens, it doesn't appear that PCs are under load... It just happens. 

The two scenarios in which I use Multiplicity are:

  1. My Personal Laptop and my Work Laptop are connected (both Wifi).
  2. My Personal Desktop and my Work Laptop are connected (Personal Desktop is Ethernet & Wifi, Work Laptop is Wifi).

The issue occurs most frequently in Scenario 1, which is how I use Multiplicity the majority of the time.

I hope that sheds some light. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 11

My Personal Laptop and my Work Laptop are connected (both Wifi).
End of vogelap's quote

Is a VPN connection active on either at the time? If so, and left unconnected, is it still reproducible reliably?

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top

There is no VPN active on any of those connections.

Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 13

There is no VPN active on any of those connections.
End of vogelap's quote

What is likely clear is the desire to get out from under a 'work PC' - very often a device that has not-so-obvious security implementations that are not controllable by the user. 

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting sdrohan, reply 14
What is likely clear is the desire to get out from under a 'work PC' - very often a device that has not-so-obvious security implementations that are not controllable by the user. 
End of sdrohan's quote

I don't understand what you're saying here.

I was coming here to add that it seems that the drops are more frequent when I am typing, but that might be bias on my part since I'd notice it more specifically when I am actively using (typing) the computer.

Is there some sort of debug logging or anything we can reference to see why these drops keep occuring? I love Multiplicity and the flexibility it allows, but it is mighty disruptive to experience these frequent drops.

Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 15

Quoting sdrohan,reply 14
What is likely clear is the desire to get out from under a 'work PC' - very often a device that has not-so-obvious security implementations that are not controllable by the user. 
I don't understand what you're saying here.
End of vogelap's quote

Apparently its not clear... ;) PCs issued by an employer (what I suspect is the case here) have all sorts of layered security policies applied to them.  Any number of them could impact the proper use of any 3rd party product, MP included. 

Quoting vogelap, reply 15

Is there some sort of debug logging or anything we can reference to see why these drops keep occuring? I love Multiplicity and the flexibility it allows, but it is mighty disruptive to experience these frequent drops.
End of vogelap's quote

There is not but it would certainly detail what the app is saying - communication has been lost. 

Quoting vogelap, reply 15

I was coming here to add that it seems that the drops are more frequent when I am typing, but that might be bias on my part since I'd notice it more specifically when I am actively using (typing) the computer.
End of vogelap's quote

Typing which, the Primary or Secondary, Vogelap?

If an external mouse is being used on the Primary, what is that mouse brand (what I am looking for is if its a gaming mouse). 

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top

Thanks for the reply, Sean.

I understand about work-computer security, but wouldn't that be a "works" or "doesn't work" scenario, instead of intermittent? 

Generally when I notice the connection lost issue while typing, it is when I am typing on my Secondary. But it might be a biased opinion since I am actively using the computer at the time. I also think the loss of connection just happens -- as I was returning to my computers today, I noticed that MP lost and re-established connection before I even touched them.

It is an external mouse and keyboard (Logitech M560 mouse and K360 wireless keyboard), but they're not gaming peripherals.

Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 17

I understand about work-computer security, but wouldn't that be a "works" or "doesn't work" scenario, instead of intermittent? 
End of vogelap's quote

What your IT people put on that PC is unknown, thus its effects are as well.  Surely you could imagine it being less binary than just 'works' \ 'does not work', yes?

The baseline is that MP Seamless works reliably for everyone under 'normal' conditions.  I can say that in confidence even in your case as you would not likely have purchased MP had you always had this issue. In other words, MP worked for you perfectly fine until it did not.  The effort is finding out what changed...

Quoting vogelap, reply 17

It is an external mouse and keyboard (Logitech M560 mouse and K360 wireless keyboard), but they're not gaming peripherals.
End of vogelap's quote

It's going to sound odd but can you test with them excluded - can you reliably reproduce the issues if they are not connected to any MP PC and (preferably) turned off entirely?

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top

I've owned MP for a long time and have had this problem intermittently throughout owning it, but only recently started to explore a solution. 

I have turned off the K360 and M560 and will let you know if I see any changes. No sooner did I turn them off than I saw the error. Will keep the mouse & keyboard off for a while... Thanks.

Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top



Can you quantify this for me, Sam..? How often is this happening?

What are the versions of Windows for each? Restrict testing and reporting on just 2 PCs, please.  However, if there are others that 'work just fine', we want to know this.

Are both PCs on the exact same version and build (About tabs)?  What is that version and build?

Can you create the fail conditions at will..?  Or, no, is it completely random?

When it happens, is either PC under a considerable load (file transfers, game running, app installation, etc)?

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

 

 
End of quote


Specs - 
Windows 11 host, windows 10 receiver (only running two computers) 

As it stands, drop out seems to be almost 1 every 5-10mins maybe more. 

Both Applications are running the same version and build (version 3.6 build 00105.kvm) 

Hard to say if I can recreate the issue manually, It can hold a  connection and the reconnection is almost a millisecond of disconnection. I've checked both computers for network faults, and using a connection monitor during the disconnection of MP on either computer both computers maintain a connection to the internet. (ergo I need to see the log files of Multiplicity to understand why its losing a connection) Neither computer are under "extreme loads" - can happen when simply reading an email with no other tabs or under a increased load such as gaming or downloading something. Even happens when the computer isn't really in any use. 

I don't have full control over the router as its a "managed system router" but both computers are connected via a splitter on the same subnetwork

Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top

Quick update... I turned off the M560 mouse and K360 keyboard yesterday for a while, but turned the M560 back on (for ease of use) and experienced fewer (but not zero) MP drops.

My current feeling is that there were more drops when the keyboard was turned on, but that's just an anecdotal guess (that being said, I started this morning with both M560 & K360 ON, and haven't had a single drop yet).

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 21

Quick update... I turned off the M560 mouse and K360 keyboard yesterday for a while, but turned the M560 back on (for ease of use) and experienced fewer (but not zero) MP drops.

My current feeling is that there were more drops when the keyboard was turned on, but that's just an anecdotal guess (that being said, I started this morning with both M560 & K360 ON, and haven't had a single drop yet).
End of vogelap's quote
'

The test was twofold: eliminating wireless interference and the ridiculously high polling rate of certain mice (it is controllable, however) can crush performance while the Secondary has focus. 

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting sdrohan, reply 22


Quoting vogelap,
reply 21

Quick update... I turned off the M560 mouse and K360 keyboard yesterday for a while, but turned the M560 back on (for ease of use) and experienced fewer (but not zero) MP drops.

My current feeling is that there were more drops when the keyboard was turned on, but that's just an anecdotal guess (that being said, I started this morning with both M560 & K360 ON, and haven't had a single drop yet).

'

The test was twofold: eliminating wireless interference and the ridiculously high polling rate of certain mice (it is controllable, however) can crush performance while the Secondary has focus. 

End of sdrohan's quote

Thanks for the reply, Sean. I will explore reducing the polling rate of my mouse in that configuration. What is a polling rate that won't crush performance, please? Thanks!

Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting vogelap, reply 23

Thanks for the reply, Sean. I will explore reducing the polling rate of my mouse in that configuration. What is a polling rate that won't crush performance, please? Thanks!
End of vogelap's quote

Crank it to as low as it will go and work up from there.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting sdrohan, reply 24


Quoting vogelap,
reply 23

Thanks for the reply, Sean. I will explore reducing the polling rate of my mouse in that configuration. What is a polling rate that won't crush performance, please? Thanks!



Crank it to as low as it will go and work up from there.

End of sdrohan's quote

Thanks! I will try that and report back one way or the other.