m0rphium....

Very cool, Jafo. You made me happy again. Thanx...

I missed the other thread, but I can presume it would explain why, m0rphium, you felt the need to post a comment on a skin by Skinplant (Mike Bryant and I) asking "WHERE THE F*** IS MINE SKIN ???????????"

>

I see this comment on every other new skin I looked at today... What happened to patience lately ?



[Message Edited]

As we speak the comments are being removed...

I think I got the all.

m0rphium...I thought the little 'problem' was sorted quite quickly....the comments posted served nothing but to waste my effort/s having to remove them.

theM all....[one day I'll be able to edit my own posts]...

the shape of the skin was done 100% based on Abracadabra, just changing detalis enough to not be considered a rip. To me, this is the same thing.

I missed the other thread also but as soon as I seen the skin it was pretty obvious it had to be about being designed like Abracadabra.

I feel for you treetog, I would be upset too.

I guess technically it's not a rip but the design of the windows and buttons are most certainly modeled in the likeness of Abracadabra.

What the ... is wrong with you, people. That is not a rip. Ok, I deleted it. Are you happy, treetog ? You can be! How can You make a RIP if You haven't seen the other skin ? The only thing I know, is that everyone of you can blame it on me, I don't care. I know - it isn't rip!!!

The next step will be: Everyone, who will use blue colour, will be ripping it from Abracadabra. Everyone, who will use rounded cubes, will be ripping them from Luna etc. ? What can I do if I make similar titlebar ? That was my thought! One day I slept and got an idea - Maybe something like those rounded corners and green buttons. And, as always, my thought is rip. Everytime when You skin something, You should check the other 10.000s of skins for no similarity, yes? That's just a coincidence! BLAME YOURSELF AND BE HAPPY, THE WORLD HAS LOST ONE "ripping" skinner (bad skinner) (bad boy).. Goodbye..

Btw, if the skin wasn't so called "PREMIUM" skin, would it be so interesting to blame me in ripping ? ? ?

morphium

Everyone needs to chill out on the ripping witch hunts. Since I have not had an opportunity to compare both skins I cannot offer an opinion, but this does remind me of a time when one skinner accused another skinner of ripping just because both skins had a similar button which were both similar to Mac OS X's Aqua buttons.



[Message Edited]

This is the first case I am not sure about what to think. The similarities are obvious, yes. But still...

m0rphium,

I don't think anyone is saying you ripped the graphics, and if they did I am sure they do not still believe that. It is obvious on close inspection that those graphics have been independently created.

The problem is that the visual styling is too close, even though not exact, to the appearance of Abracadabra. While it is not technically a "rip" and therefore should not be forceably removed from this site, I believe it is too close in relation to style and you should voluntarily remove it. The fact that you may have come up with the idea without ever viewing the other skin makes no difference really. The other skin has been published for some time now and has clearly established itself well before your work has appeared publicly.

I would hope as a skinner you would embrace the high standards this community expects regarding intellectual property. There could be a day when this same standard will be in your favor. I would hope everyone would be as supportive of you if someone came to close to your designs.

If you choose to leave that is your decision. I personally hope you do not as you show an incredible amount of talent in your work. To answer your last question, probably not... and the fact that the author is an admin on this site is also a factor. Reason being, he is a high visibilty author. Such is life, good luck!

This issue has actually brought me to these message boards for the first time. With that said, I really am questioning how you guys can hold m0rphium at fault. An author who has consistently put out *original* work would not just all-of-a-sudden start to plagiarize. Not everyone has the opportunity to browse through thousands of WindowBlinds skins to make sure that the idea hasn't been done before.

I'd say we're approaching the point where these witchhunts will become commonplace due to the sheer number of WB skins. If you plan on holding author's liable for arriving at the same idea for a skin, then perhaps you should offer some avenue to make it easy to find out if it's been done before.

If an Admin etc was to say something then ok it can be sorted quickly and privately, the problems arise when certain people take it upon themself to have the need to join in and blast the person in question when in fact it only draws it out longer and causes more trouble.

.I've just switched back and forth about a dozen times between the two and in my opinion the similarities between them is superficial enough to be a complete accident.There are so many grey and glass bubble skins out there that i'm afraid to do one myself for fear that everyone will say "thats been done" or "it looks like So an so's skin".Treetogs suite is awsome and one that is well worth buying(if i used all those apps)but he dosnt own a copyright on shapes.(sorry Tretog,you do superior work but i think your being too defensive).

As far as I could tell just visually the similarity appeared limited to the top bar and the right hand buttons. The rest of the m0rphim's skin was different. It wasn't a copy of Abracadabra. Yet the comments left for the skin were as if the skin was just an identical copy or indeed a complete rip. Which it wasn't.

I also recalled when previously a skinner actually did rip Adni's skins and those were pulled. Later he posted skins, while technically not rips because he didn't use Adni's graphics as he had done previously, but were otherwise virtually identical copies of the style with different colors. Those were allowed to stay here because they technically weren't rips. And the author wasn't dogged although much more cause existed than in this case, in my view.

Another example, the Syncronus skin in the Carbonix skin pact I find reminiscent of Essorant's Nascent. It is different, but there are IMO similarities. Should I have screamed "rip" because of those similarities or features reminiscent of Nascent?

So now no one can make a with a top bar in that style or similar without being accused of ripping because of Abracadabra? Regardless if the rest of the skin bears no similarities? That's seems a bit extreme to me and where does it stop?

When I first saw this skin I thought oh, a green Abracadabra.  The fact is, whether the titlebar and titlebar buttons are copied or not, they look like a copy. Acknowledging that and being cool about it would have helped the green skin's case a lot more than being defensive and making rude posts on other people's skins.

I've had a couple cases where I was making a skin and saw one come out before I finished it that looked so similar in color or textures, I just dropped the one I was making. Mainly because I felt my design would look too inspired by the new one even though I knew it wasn't.

If treetog felt his skin was ripped, he had every right to feel that way. His stature in this community also deserves the respect of discussing it and not being childishly defensive or deriding him for pointing out similarities that anyone would agree are obvious.

Had there been even a little bit of class in the response, this would have been easy to resolve to a point where everyone was okay with it.

 

well, I don't thik this is just a case of "some similarity" and I am afraid I can't buy the "I never saw Abracadabra before doing my skin"

To m0rphium: No, I am not happy, I would be really happy if you would use skills in favor of your imagination/creativity.

not the same...

13 by Citizen cswake - 6/29/2003 7:15:17 AM This issue has actually brought me to these message boards for the first time. With that said, I really am questioning how you guys can hold m0rphium at fault. An author who has consistently put out *original* work would not just all-of-a-sudden start to plagiarize. Not everyone has the opportunity to browse through thousands of WindowBlinds skins to make sure that the idea hasn't been done before.I'd say we're approaching the point where these witchhunts will become commonplace due to the sheer number of WB skins. If you plan on holding author's liable for arriving at the same idea for a skin, then perhaps you should offer some avenue to make it easy to find out if it's been done before.

I agree.

Yes the two look very similar. I also belive Jafo when he says the bitmaps are original.

I have also seen many styles of skins and it would be easy to come up with a very clos style.

If you wish, you can go to winamp.com and browse through the thousand or so skins and I do belive you will find a few skins that look like abra before abra was made.

Aslo, sadly, as similair as those images produced above ^^^^ by treetog as proof, they are not really the same. Title bar is very close, but not that close. The curves are different, hilights are different, edges on title bar are sharper cornered in areas, the buttons are the most similair things on those images (and they are different too)

Looks like this one got out of hand.

I never said that this is a direct rip, but that it was 100% based on Abracadabra and they are not identicals since we have different design technics.

The identity of the skins are the same, the concept of the frame is the same, the visual of the titlebar buttons is the same.

The skin was posted exactly because of that, because it was not a direct rip, but in the other hand, I also have the right of saying what I think and I can't believe on the alegations above.

 

 

 

I used to be a Professional Woodturner.
I would look endlessly through magazines for "turned shapes" and store them in my mental library.
Some months later while working on a project, I mentally drew upon those shapes incorporating them into the project at hand.
I never used the pictures in the magazines to visually copy from them, and never had them in my workshop.
I considered that not a copyright infringment, nor did anyone else.
I consider mOrphiums work to be much along the same lines as what I practiced in my shop, and in the end, only he knows what and how he did it.

Y'z Dock uses different code to Apple's OSX dock.
It's skinnable, so it looks nothing like Apple's OSX dock.
It's coder has been told, by lawyers acting on Apple's behalf, to stop coding it.

Why? Because he used the identity and design of the dock.
That skin might not be a graphic rip, but same principles apply here.
And when you consider that Abracadabra is a sold suite, people thinking of buying it might actually be dissuaded after seeing m0rphiums skin for free. It's essentially taking income away from Treetog, who does graphics for a living.

There's also a respect matter. The skins are so similar, most skinners approached with this would probably have removed it, as they look so alike, or at least chosen to discuss it maturely with the accusers. Instead, m0rphium chose to cry, and go spamming all the new WB uploads with unnaceptable comments regarding the matter.

[Message Edited]

treetog - but in the other hand, I also have the right of saying what I think

without a doubt

hippy - Y'z Dock uses different code to Apple's OSX dock. It's skinnable, so it looks nothing like Apple's OSX dock. It's coder has been told, by lawyers acting on Apple's behalf, to stop coding it. Why? Because he used the identity and design of the dock.

I would really like a link to the translated, or Japinese email the developer of YZ Dock was sent.

I would like to know what it is that Apple claims, exactly.
really really...

Who *owns* the GUI Concept, Identity and design?

There has to be more to it than that, anyone have a link to the email or something posted by the YZ Dock developer describing Apples claims?

The point is even if it's a complete coincidence they are the same design.  This puts it in the spotlight and a discussion was inevitable. Morphium blew his chance to resolve it by being a total asshole. That was his choice. Green skin gets no respect if only for that one reason.