Treetog i see what you mean on these two elements(titlebar design could easily be a random accident,the buttons i admit are a little too similar when used in combination with the titlebar)but really thats where the similarities end.We all emulate you to a certain degree.Your considered one of the premiere skinners.It's only natural that we incorporate techniques we see in the best work.This may be a case of not giving credit where credit is due or it could be a complete coincidince.Are two elements enough to warrant this kind of attention?100% based on abra?hmmmmm...more like 33% at best.

Dont know if morphium was an asshole or not,(think someone cleaned up the mess)if he was he should apologize to each one in dividually.I CAN understand how he must have felt tho.His point about this being partially because we are dealing with a premium skin is well taken.

I think people should be careful about the assertions they make.

I myself am not sure how I feel about the skin. I think it's very good quality just like I think the Abracadabra skin is of very good quality.

It is not a rip. The only similarities between the two skins are in the title bar. Just the title bar. The scrollbars, push buttons, start bar, radio buttons, etc. are all completley different.

From my vantage point, I would say that the title bar was "inspired" by Abacadabra.

Treetog is one of my closest friends on thet Internet so as his friend, I have a strong sense of loyalty and I can understand why he feels the way he does.

But as an admin, I feel Morphium has been treated unfairly. If the whole skin seemed like a design copy of Abracadabra, even if the graphics themselves were created independently, I would understand more. But it's really the title bar that seems heavily influenced by Abracadabra and for that I think that we should all be careful before jumping on people.

Stardock's generally neutral when it comes to "the community". But you folks need to decide what kind of community you want it to be. Do you want to have some elitist hiearchy where the works of elder skinners are considered to be sacred and no skins may be made that look even similar to the original?

Because I would be very careful about such charges. Dangeruss and Mercury have both made a great number of skins that were heavily "inspired" by Kaleidoscope skins. They weren't rips.

So I'll say again to everyone reading this what I said to the Kaleidoscope people back then -- be wary of becoming too militant. Your best tool for enforcing your perceived rights is good will and reason.

My view, overall, is that Morphium's skin is probably too similar to a casual user and borders a bit on trade dress violation (the actual "law" that would be the foundation of anyone's objection). But I think the matter could have been handled a lot more civily. 

wisdom has spoken, without a doubt

...more like common sense.

Well hopefully he returns and very hopefully the people who take it upon themdself to flame others when their comments will do no good will realise that and just give sensible helpfull gestures.

Certainly mOrpheum could have handled his response better, but I think he's just a kid and has done some good skins previously. Since he did not rip the skin (and no one else can really be 100% certain that he was intentionally copying another's top bar---belief does not a fact make) and the skin isn't a copy, he got mad when he was accused of ripping and his skin was removed without, evidently, close scrutiny.

So is the skin judged not only on the top bar's similarity (and still it is not identitcal) to another skin, but because of his response to the events? He reacted badly so it's ok to dog him about ripping?

So from now on no one can use a similar top bar in a skin? And be careful of the buttons as well? Taken as a guide, that one must not have a style concept similar to another's in some portion of a skin, apply it to all pre-existing skins and it will be a very rare new skin that could not be accused of ripping.

#30 by White_Moth - 6/29/2003 3:51:02 PM ...more like common sense

exactly


wisdom .n. knowledge; insight, common sense; opinion; reason, words of wisdom

It is not a rip. The only similarities between the two skins are in the title bar. Just the title bar. The scrollbars, push buttons, start bar, radio buttons, etc. are all completley different.

And that is coming from THE MAN... not a rip. I don't think it is a rip either BTW.

keeping the context intact

It is not a rip. The only similarities between the two skins are in the title bar. Just the title bar. The scrollbars, push buttons, start bar, radio buttons, etc. are all completley different. From my vantage point, I would say that the title bar was "inspired" by Abacadabra

Sorry IP, my bad...

sig101....re #32....I scrutinized the skins extremely closely and at great length. My conclusion resulted in m0rphium's work being made public again ofter initial withdrawal.

**********************

If one took on face value m0rphium's claim that he had never seen Abracadabra to be influenced by it, then that, along with the STRONG dissimilarities meant we were obliged to do so.

If, however, this claim was found to be a little short of the truth then the work would/could be seen in a different light.

What transpired was a number of people took offense to the alleged coincidental similarity and said so.

I, as a site admin, was not overly impressed with some of the accusatory comment, but conversely I was also less than happy about m0rphium's responses when the skin was first withdrawn.  Posting 'WHERE THE F**K IS MY SKIN?' on every new WB skin in the list was not appropriate, particularly considering dialogue had already been opened to him privately via email.

His subsequent departure is testimony to one of two scenarios.....either maintaining the stance of 'innocent coincidence' perhaps fallaciously was proving too difficult,

or,

He was compelled to depart through what may have been an unwarranted attack on his reputation and person.

Personally I'm willing to imagine that m0rphium DID get quite distant inspiration from a prior skin, not a 'rip' as such and, had he perhaps understood that people would be likely to take umbrage with that, he could have approached the original artist for 'permission' for the inspiration, stated such in its comments and nipped it all in the bud.

Officially, we all, as members of the skinning community are going to have to take a close look at what, how and why we do/respond to issues such as this.

As more and more works are created, chances increase for both unhappy coincidences and historical inspiration.  Their handling needs to be 'with care'...

He was compelled to depart through what may have been an unwarranted attack on his reputation and person.

i have been attacked and put down but with a grain of salt i am still here..

of couse, you are right Paul...

But as an admin, I feel Morphium has been treated unfairly.

Your argument may or may not be valid, but please read what Hippy wrote, Brad. If there is anything like the benefit of the doubt then he used up the doubt by his actions.

And yes, I do agree with #37.

Yes, Jafo, your first post in this thread makes it clear that you did compare the skins in detail and then restored the skin to view. I just said that the skin was removed first, before such a review, which evidently it was.

Um, I don't usually comment on these things. I moderate a message board myself and I know that there are times that one action seems appropriate and then on further reflection and input of more opinion and study the initial decision is reversed. It takes an honest, fair, strong, and thoughtful moderator to do that with some degree of grace. All of us, whether we are admins, skinners, users... we are all just human beings. It gets a little tedious to rehash these things over and over and some boards, including the one I moderate, simply require these things to be conducted privately.

I posted a response to another post asking what is wrong with effectively stealing someone's else's work and insinuating that treetog has no right to charge for his work. That I took offense to. In my post, I used the word steal which, upon reflection, was probably a poor choice and without taking a closer look at the two skins, (which I did later). For that I apologize to m0rphium if in fact, that is not the case. I still find it very difficult to believe that m0rphium's skin is not at least somewhat inspired by treetog's suite and if so, credit should be given where credit is due.. Of course, the only one who will really ever know is m0rphium.

I do think that some really good points have been made by a number of people on this thread, in regards to the odds that this will happen again due to the sheer number of skins and popularity of WindowsBlinds and I agree that it's up to us what this site becomes. One of the things I really like about this site is that it is not a flameathon like some other skin sites out there, (IMO). That being said, I personally am going to make every effort to, "handle with care", which is good advice from Jafo, so that Wincustomize remains the best skin site on the planet.
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I really, really hope that this has not arisen another drama, which we all would suffer very badly from...

Just 2 cents. I'm fairly new to all this customization stuff. I bought Abracadabra. I also downloaded morphium's skin. No offense but I never thought , oh that looks like Abracadabra. I just thought it was cool. Yeah, the toppart is similar. Does that mean it was ripped? What is a rip anyway? Can someone define it. Look at all the new cars for sale. They all look the same. If he sent it to Treetog for permission would it have been granted? How much do you have to change the buttons for it not to be a rip? Is the whole concept of a squarish button with a starrish inside now locked up forever? Has it ever appeared anywhere before, so could Abra be considered a rip? I for one was pretty excited about learning Photoshop and doing some skins myself but after reading all the bs posts and fighting here screw it. Too much time and money to have everyone scrutinizing every little button or style to see if they can start some s**t. Gimme a break, how many shapes are there left for a button or a title bar or whatever. Someone should post a list of what style or shape has not been taken so we can pick from those when making something. Are all Aqua skins a rip? Who did the first? Aren't all others that came afterward a rip of that one.

I kind of feel bad about telling mOrphium that Santa would give him coal, after really looking at the skins side by side I don’t think they are the exactly the same, but I also think he may gone a stretch by asking people to believe that he never laid eyes on tree togs "abracadabra."

Sorry but I gotta get mine in here...

There are few figures that I respect more in the skinning community than Renato. Hell, half of what I've ever done came from loading one of his skins into SKS to see how he did something so that I could do my own better next time. Unless you are born with this talent, much of it is a "see and learn" process.

Many of us are disturbed by Apples approach to anyone making icons or docks that resemble theirs. I can tell you that many have been sent legal notices asking for cease and desist even when it comes to icons that resemble the OSX feel.

This is where I fear we are going...

I decided to look at the two myself and have to concur, as much as I respect Renato, m0rphium is without question a talented artist and this I believe is his own work.

Renato... you have to come to realize. You are a mentor to many skinners and an inspiration just as well. Along with that position comes a realization that you will be copied, or at least to some extent. It happens in every facet of life... the good are always imitated. Take it as flattery rather than insult.

Please let's not make this a place where I am afraid to post a skin simply because I used a blue button with a shadow on it like someone else did.

Oh and for the record, yes, m0rphium could have handled this all much better than he did.

I've never seen Abracadabra until now either...

Okay, I have thought about saying it very long, but did actually anyone take a closer look at the scrollbar of skinplant's 'hulk' skin ? Familar ? Give You a tip : Look at the scrollbar of Universe Metal from Pixtudio. And noone (including me honestly) will accuse Hippy and Mike to rip anything. I think these things happen from time to time considering the big number of skins that already have been made...



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yep, only so many ways to skin a cat, ahhh, PC

anyone seen the cat?