Ok, just to clarify one thing: I don't think governments are actively spying on us personally. What I am saying is that if there ever is a regime change in any of the Democratic countries (and it's not as difficult to happen as some of you may think) then ALL the tools they would need to actively monitor you as an individual are already in place.

Not that I would be very afraid of my own government trying to spy on me . To illustrate why, we have this old Portuguese joke:

"An old Portuguese communist dies and goes to Hell. Once there he is given a choice: he could either go to the Russian hell or the Portuguese hell.

- But what's the difference? - he asks.

- Well, in the Russian hell you get a bucket of poop thrown down your head every other day.

- And in the Portuguese hell?

- That's every single day.

- Damn, I rather have it every other day than every single day!

And so he goes to the Russian hell, where every other day a queue would form to receive their 'special prize'. One day he meets an old friend of his, who was also in hell.

- You fool! You made the same mistake I did by choosing Russian hell! - shouts the friend.

- What do you mean? At least here it's only every other day!

- Yeah, but here it REALLY is every other day. In the Portuguese hell, when they have poop they're out of buckets, when they have buckets they're out of poop, and when they have buckets and poop, they're on strike!"

Quoting -RG-, reply 27

Yea well you get what you pay for. Pay a cheap price for Windows you get a cheap return for it is worth. Which is pretty much nothing from what I have seen on this thread. So don't try to make it good on my post, please. Don't waste your time.  

End of -RG-'s quote

Win 10 was never cheap!  It was supposedly free for a while, and I say supposedly free because there were way too many strings attached... strings that benefit MS immensely and NOT users.  Free it certainly was NOT.  For what users had/have to give up to use Win 10: privacy; personal data; internet details and much, much more, it is by far the most costly OS MS has ever produced.

If you have read any of my past posts regarding Win ten, RG, you'll know that I don't like it.  While it has had some improvements and features added since release, the bug-bear issues with it still remain - forced updates; spying and snooping; patches with who knows what installed by stealth, etc, etc - and make it the worst Windows edition I've ever used.  So when it goes to a subscription model it will be the end of it for me, period.

The worst thing?  When Win 10 was forced down millions of users throats, whether they wanted it or not - I didn't - and nobody did jack diddly squat about it, not government, not regulatory bodies, not the courts.  No bastard stood up for the end users.... NOBODY, and now MS is pushing the envelope even further, to the point where 'our own' PCs will be controlled from Redmond and there will be no more user rights [not that we have many now anyway].

Ubuntu and/or Mint is looking good about now, and hopefully Stardock will port its apps over to Linux.  However, I won't hold my breath.

LOL....paranoia abounds. I know a lady who says she can hear microwaves and cell phone signals in her head and it's driving her crazy.

Neither Google nor Big Brother is spying on you via your webcam. Or your microphone. Threads like this amuse me.

Oops. I didn't do that, it was Putin.

Would...wouldn't...semantics. But a tin foil hat is sounding better every day. Even flat earthers are gettin' in on it. 

*no offense to those who think that stuff*

Yes....I hear it's a global phenomenon ...;p

It's not that they are spying on everyone all of the time, but if they want to spy on certain individuals the technology is there.... in their hands.

As for hearing things: I have this constant ringing in my right ear, and I'm sure it's the ghosts of peelers past telling me the time and that all is well.

For those who don't know what/who peelers were, they were people who walked the streets of early London at night calling out the time.... and: "And all is well" if there was nothing majorly wrong about.

Well!  The bit of Earth I'm standing on right now is flat.

However, I can see some hills off in the distance....

Sooo, I'm guessin' the world ain't flat after all.    

Even the professionals have had enough:

"Susan Bradley, an 18 year Microsoft MVP focused on Windows patching and patch management, has sent an open letter to Microsoft executives Satya Nadella, Carlos Picoto, and Scott Guthrie about the frustration Windows 10 users have when dealing with installing new updates. This letter includes the results of a survey taken by over 1,000 consultants and over 800 consumers regarding their experience with Windows 10 updates."

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/an-open-letter-to-microsoft-about-poor-windows-10-update-experiences/

What is more worrying than Microsoft destroying Windows is the deafening silence from politicians and big corporations.

Interesting German documentary (at least if you live in Europe):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaYLW7LQvg

Excellent post, anotherside, thanks.

The problem with Synofsky, Nadella, etc, is that they won't listen. They're perfectly aware about the problems and have been since the beginning, but they don't care - they ALL think they are Steve Jobs reincarnated and that they know better than their users.

In the case of Steve Jobs, this was actually true a lot of the time, but these guys are nothing like him, they're just some deluded and arrogant wanna-be's, all of them.

Could be a sign of collusion delusion.

You all should keep one important aspect in mind.

YOU DO NOT OWN your copy of Windows. You purchased a license, which may be revoked at any time for various reasons. 

(From MS EULA:

Installation and Use Rights.

1. License.The software is licensed, not sold.

This is pretty much the same for all software. 

If MS wants to change their product model there isn't much you are going to do about it.

Those talking up switching to Linux and Mac.. well.. good luck with that. If all you want to do is surf the internet then it will work fine. If you want to run applications, most worthwhile programs/games/ etc are written for Windows.

Yes, the same way you don't own the story when you buy a book, just the media it is printed on.

You can vote with your wallets and switch to another OS. Oh, wait...

Mac? Apple?! They're even worse than Microsoft. Latest from them.

So the only thing left is Linux... but people won't switch until it can run nearly all the games and applications they run on Windows - and developers won't develop for it until there's enough paying customers using it to make it worthwhile. Kind of chicken and egg situation.

But if MS keeps antagonizing their users and abusing what is essentially a monopolistic position the way they've been doing lately, I think eventually the balance will tip over - and when it does, the change will be swift and permanent, relegating Microsoft and Windows to the history books and as an example of what NOT to do.

I know for a fact that Google has pretty much taken over the K-12 public school systems now. All that is really needed are some major business app developers to jump on a Linux bandwagon to start chipping away at the armor. But as you say.. it is indeed a Chicken and Egg situation..

They may have the right to change their product model, but consumers have the right to reject it, and I believe quite a large number will.  Maybe a few yuppies will accept the subscription model, but long time Windows users will turn away in droves.  A one-off license is one thing, but a recurring monthly fee isn't something the majority will want.  I don't and just about everyone I speak to say the same, with many talking about going back to Win 7 Win 8.1 or even Vista. 

It won't matter that MS no longer supports these earlier OSes, users will beef up their security, and companies in that area of business will make a killing as they replace MS' patches, etc.  As Jorge said, MS' current business model is NOT the way to go and it will be relegated to the history books as a once powerful organisation that lost the plot big time.

Subscription models for software that people can live without is one thing.  However, a subscription model for an OS that runs the whole kit and kaboodle is another.  Fail to keep up with the subscription for Winstep Xtreme, for example, you can still use the software, you just don't get any updates or upgrades.  It's the same with most software subscriptions, but fail to keep up with the subscription for Windows and you're feched.... your PC has been turned into an expensive bookend and none of your software, subscription or otherwise is accessible.  And with so many millions of users coming from the lower end of the socio-economic scale, there's going to be a shitload of very expensive bookends worldwide

Nope, the entire idea is about greed, a grab for more of your cash, and total control over YOUR PC.... and world governments, not even the EU, will say/do nothing about it because total control suits their agendas.

It makes me wonder, as companies fight for YOUR cash, and cut eachothers throats to get it, just how they will survive when you have NO MORE cash to take... because it has been eaten up by greed, rising costs and shrinking incomes.

When there's nothing left to take, what will they do then?

Surely the simple solution to "the Government/Microsoft/Deep State/Whoever can see through my webcam/computer equipment" is to simply unplug it when you're not using it...Heck, take the batteries out if you really want to be sure. I don't have either so I got no worries at present. The nice NSA man tells me he's not spying on me. And to change my washing as it's just finished and to remember to salute the flag before I go to bed.

Or you can use a typewriter, which apparantly some people have, post-Snowden's revelations etc, actually done. 'Though constantly typing out a Minefield sheet and then playing by picking a square and tossing a dice to get 1-6 score where 6 is the Mine will drive you crazy in the end. And you'd have to buy actual cards to play Patience.

FWIW, I don't see any reason to trust Linux, etc any more than Windows. No less, either, of course, but my point is, if you believe they're all out to get you, that means everybody. The people you like - Linux, Firefox, Greenpeace, Saunders, Assange, Snowden as examples - may be on your side today, but who's to say what changes tomorrow will bring?

We're screwed.

Truth is: the human race is fucked.  There is little to no hope because those in the upper echelon have designed it that way.  Thing is, their narrow-minded greed; thrust for control over everything; reducing the lower echelon to rags and zero ownership actually defeats their own agendas/purpose.  Their quest for the ultimate power and wealth will leave them with nothing. 

History dictates this because the human animal will never change.  The upper echelon will always want more than is possible, and the lower echelon will never have the power or resources to combat it.  The Roman Empire fell bt the wayside because it never understood the distribution of wealth and power, the British Empire almost went the same way, save the sense of a few wise men who saw the error of their ways.

Now we have the US trying to emulate that which failed before them, having learnt eff all from the history of mankind.... and the EU thinking it has some kind of influence to control the outcome.  Neither will succeed because nobody ever learnt from the mistakes of those who fell before them.

The fact that many in the Linux crowd share the (mistaken) belief that software should be free (therefore making them less likely to be turned into paying customers) doesn't help either. This from the perspective of a developer, of course.

Despite this Linux is still the best option we have now precisely because it is Open Source, and therefore not owned/controlled by a single company. If a Linux distributor tried to hijack the OS in a different direction, others would simply fork Linux to go in the opposite direction.

As for the political side of this discussion (as I said before I think it is all related), we can't ignore our own fault for remaining silent and doing nothing while the world changed around us for the worse.

We allowed this to happen, we allowed minorities to think they were entitled to tell the majority- because people with rational minds and common sense are STILL the majority - what to think and what to say. I think most people are beginning to wake up because the insanity is reaching unprecedented levels.

One thing is for certain, we can no longer afford to stay silent or remain neutral about this. You MUST chose a side and defend it vigorously - that is the only way our collective voices will be heard.

Just to give you an example, Doctors are ALREADY being fired from their jobs for simply defending the biological fact that there are only two genders, male and female. Something that is true from both the BIOLOGY and GENETICS perspective. If something like this does not make your blood boil, I don't know what would - even if you don't agree, there is no WAY in the world people should be fired for that!

With all the sympathy I have for people in general and people with gender dysphoria in particular, saying I am a chicken does not make me one. 

Also, if you watch the video, it's a delightful irony when 'she' tells him that he has no right to impose his point of view on others (aka think on his own) when it is PRECISELY that which she is trying to do to him. The poor man was literally bulldozed by everyone in that interview room - amazing how he still managed to hold it together.

I would LOVE to see them trying that with Jordan B.Peterson.

I have spoken out on many occasion about the injustices, blatant greed and things wrong in the world, but many a time I was ignored or told that I was paranoid: "Go find your tinfoil hat.".  And that's the problem, my sole voice was not enough ...being heard where it counts.  I may as well be in another solar system. 

 I don't know that we did!    Well not always knowingly.  So much was done covertly, under the cover of darkness; by stealth.  By the time the public became aware of the wrongs it was often too late.  For example; Microsoft's trialing Office as a subscription service.  Many thought 'oh great, Office without the big outlay'.  Little did they know that it was the precursor to Windows being converted to a subscription service... a travesty laying in wait to ambush PC users globally.  Again, it's too late, the mechanisms are in place and Microsoft will do what it wants, blatantly refusing to listen to its users because it thinks its monopoly position will save it.

Again, so much goes on in this world that slips by under the cover of darkness, and MS is guilty of that now.  And how do we know this subscription thing will happen?  Interested parties delved into things and revealed it to the public.  MS was never going to reveal the truth until the last minute, giving consumers little time to adjust or seek a viable alternative to Windows.  For me, though, the moment Win 10 becomes a subscription service I will drop it like a pot potato and move on.

I have devised a plan that will give me access to my regular/most used programs, as well as run a non-subscription OS that serves my other purposes.  Firstly; I will set up my 1st machine with updated Win 8.1 and disconnect it from the net when it becomes unsupported; and secondly, I will install Ubuntu and/or Mint on my 2nd machine, which will be connected to the net so I'm still touch with the outside world when MS makes Win 8.1 unviable, net-wise.

I believe that if 50% or more of Win 10 users followed my example it would force Microsoft into backtracking on the subscription service idea.  It could be Win 7 or another Linux flavour, so long as MS gets the message: 'we're not gonna take it'.

"Susan Bradley, an 18 year Microsoft MVP focused on Windows patching and patch management, has sent an open letter to Microsoft executives Satya Nadella, Carlos Picoto, and Scott Guthrie about the frustration Windows 10 users have when dealing with installing new updates. This letter includes the results of a survey taken by over 1,000 consultants and over 800 consumers regarding their experience with Windows 10 updates."

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/an-open-letter-to-microsoft-about-poor-windows-10-update-experiences/

gHacks posted an update to this story:

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/08/04/microsoft-shows-that-it-does-not-really-care-about-user-feedback/

It seems MS isn't interested in changing anything. Hardly a surprise.

I kind of feel this is the end. Not the end for Stardock or for skinning, but the end for Windows as an enthusiast OS. How can you be an enthusiast about something you cannot control?

I don’t think Windows subscription will become mandatory. Microsoft would have to wipe out both Mac and Linux before that could happen.

Just based on casual observation of blog and forum comments there seems to be a lot of people who are ready to leave the ship called MS Windows. Some to Mac, but most seem to have their eyes set on Linux, even those who see Linux as a downgrade.

In some ways Windows 10 is the best version of Windows and those times I used it I felt pretty good about it. However I had updates disabled and I felt locked in. I felt I couldn’t use the OS as MS intended it to be used, because that would lead to a bad experience.

And that’s the biggest problem with Windows 10. Windows 10 is not a good user experience out of the box for a casual user. Too many (lengthy) updates, reboots, bloatware, ads and OS reinstall twice a year. Even a casual user will soon feel that the computer doesn’t belong them. When MS takes control of the Personal Computer it’s no longer a Personal Computer and people can feel that.

So it’s the end at least for me. I’m using MX Linux (MX 17) and I like it. It’s conservative like a mix between Windows XP and Windows 7. It’s not as modern as Linux Mint and more “Linuxy”, but the forum is good and so is the documentation. I’m tempted by skins like “Artificial Intelligence”, but using an OS which I can control means more. I just come here to have a look at what the skinners are up to. I thought I would be using Windows 8.1 some more, but I felt worried about updates so I turned them off and now I simply feel there is not enough time to tinker with two OSes. I do miss the out of the box polish that Windows has. Linux requires more manual work to achieve that, but luckily I don’t need Windows-only programs. I’m still a bit annoyed by the decisions of Microsoft, because Windows 95 to Windows 7 was a good journey and the Win32 ecosystem is probably the world’s most valuable software ecosystem, it’s just that Microsoft doesn’t see much value in it.

Exactly, Win32 is the core element of Windows computing.  Without it there is no more Windows, just a glorified phone interface with half-assed apps that lack the power of true programs intended to get things done.

The journey from Win '95 to Win 7 had a few hiccups [Millenium Edition], and Win 8.1 was pretty good as well, but Win 10 is a walled garden; a mish mash of MS agendas to wrest control of PCs from their owners and manipulate all that they do online, etc.  The fact that MS forced Win 10 upon users who clearly didn't want it totally smacks of a self-serving agenda driven by MS' greed and lust for power.

Moreover, what MS did to force users into Win 10 was wrong, yet no government anywhere complained or fought on our behalf.  Not only did MS install Win 10 over Win 8.1 on my HP 2-in-1 in the middle of the night during Scheduled Maintenance, it wiped my Recovery partition so I could not roll back.  That HAS to be illegal, and I'll bet my left nut I wasn't the only one invaded that way... and the officials we elected to protect us remained silent.

For mine, satya Nadella and his cronies should be strung up by their nuts.  Consumers are NOT important to them anymore, just the goal to total control....nor are they listening to those who were faithful users for years.  What we say is irrelevant now the thrust to control us via crappy Win 10 has begun.

Just an FYI...I keep this list on hand any time I do a Windows Update. When you find these kb updates you can hide them but that doesn't mean they will not try and sneak them in later on. And you can use this stand alone app to help keep Windows 10 off your machine. https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/gwx_control_panel.html

KB2506928
KB2545698 (IE9)
KB2592687
KB2660075
KB2726535
KB2876229 SKYPE
KB2923545 RDP

KB2952664 - Is the Windows 7 nagware patch that touts the Windows 10 upgrade. Prepares

system for upgrade to Windows 10 (sends a bunch of telemetry data to M$, reported to corrupt

system files)
KB2952664 - Labeled a compatibility upgrade for upgrading Windows 7, its purpose is to "make

improvements to the current operating system in order to ease the upgrade experience to the

latest version of Windows".

KB2976978 - The Windows 8/8.1 nagware patch that touts the Windows 10 upgrade. prepares

system for upgrade to Windows 10 (sends a bunch of telemetry data to M$, reported to corrupt

system files)
KB2976978 - A compatibility update for Windows 8.1 and Windows 8 which "performs diagnostics

on the Windows system [..] to determine whether compatibility issues may be encountered when

the latest Windows operating system is installed.

KB2977728
KB2977759 - Prepares system for upgrade to Windows 10, installs telemetry
KB2978092
KB2970228
KB2990214 - Update that supports you to upgrade to a later version of Windows Win7
KB2990214 . Does the same as KB 3044374 but on Windows 7.
KB2994023
KB3014460 - Windows 8 - Nags you to install Windows 10 technical preview
KB3015249 - Telemetry, reports UAC prompt choices when making changes to the system

KB3021917 - Prepares system for upgrade to Windows 10 (CEIP) This update performs

diagnostics in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) in order to determine whether performance issues

may be encountered when the latest Windows operating system is installed. Telemetry is sent

back to Microsoft for those computers that participate in the Windows Customer Experience

Improvement Program (CEIP).
KB3021917 - Does the same as KB 2976978 but on Windows 7.

KB3022345 - Installs diagnostic/usage tracking service, reported to corrupt system files, went

through 3 versions
KB3022345 - Replaced by KB3068708 Telemetry (Caused false sfc result)
KB3035583 - Pitches the free Windows 10 upgrade
KB3035583 - According to Microsoft, this update enables "additional capabilities for Windows

Update notifications when new updates are available".

KB3044374 - Update that supports you to upgrade to a later version of Windows Win8
KB3044374 - This update for Windows 8.1 enables systems to upgrade from the current

operating system to a later version of Windows.

KB3050265
KB3050267 - Windows 8 - prepares system for upgrade to Windows 10
KB3065987
KB3068708 - Installs telemetry service, prepares system for upgrade to Windows 10
KB3075249 - Telemetry, reports UAC prompts to Microsoft
KB3080149 - Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry, CEIP
KB3095649
KB3102810
KB3173040

Windows 10 migration uninstall
kb3021917
kb3035583
kb2990214
kb3050265
kb3065987
kb3075851
kb3083324
kb3083710
kb3102810
kb3112343
kb3121461
kb2952664
kb2977759
kb3135445
kb3123862
kb3138612

Telemetry service uninstall
kb2882822
kb3022345
kb3068708
kb3080149
kb3075249
kb3081954

Update stop list
Windows 10 migration
KB3021917
KB2990214 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3050265 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3065987 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3075851 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3083324 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3083710 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB2977759 (replaced with KB2952664)
KB3102810 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3112343 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3121461 (replaced with KB2952664)
KB3135445 (replaced with KB3138612)
KB3123862
KB3035583-v3
KB2952664-v16
KB3138612
KB971033
KB2882822 (replaced with KB3080149)
KB3022345 (replaced with KB3068708)
KB3068708
KB3080149
KB3075249
KB3081954

So MS is still pushing Win 10 via nags and etc at Win 7/Win 8 users?

I could understand that if it were still 'supposedly' free, but now it is pay for I don't see that MS should be pushing it so forcefully to people who obviously don't want it... especially not now that Win 10 is about to become a damned subscription service.

The arrogance of MS is without rival; treating its customers and their PCs like possessions and using them as pawns in its push for even more power in the PC/tech world.

I thought that Apple was the most arrogant PC/tech company in the world, but MS passed it in leaps and bounds with its Win 10 agenda and piss-poor attitude to users.