To my belief main problem....

To my belief, main problem of this game (to be true all this games  are the same with small changes) is this situation with units. There is no real difference between factions… yes they have some different traits, but when you play you have feeling of the same races with small customization. I think it is bad for the atmosphere of the game, you don’t have feeling of solid finished world. More over all the possible combinations of units create big problems for AI. Often Ai can’t handle combinations which used by human players. 

In my opinion, the way it was in MoM and in AoW is right. For example - Chess. It is wonderful, clever game. On one side it has all this borders and regulations, but on the other hand within this rules it has perfect balance a lot of opportunities, different strategies and so on.

I mean, that it would be better for game to give players less different kind of units, but to make each unit unique  and balance all the factions.

I think it’s main drawback of the game. Sorry for my English, it is not native for me…

11,525 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top

Personally main issues are three fold,

Random map generation is likely to land you in a spot where you can't really get anywhere from (unless you are very skilled, playing on novice, or cheat)

Random monsters seem to often ignore NPC settlers (or maybe the computer has just been lucky).

you can't set AI preferences (i make a custom faction/sovereign, but i have no power over how they will act in game, warlike/diplomatic/researcher, they just do whatever)

Limited customization looks wise may be an issue, but i would not call it a large one.

Reply #2 Top


For the original poster I have only one comment: in Chess, each side has the EXACT SAME units... :)

Reply #3 Top

Quoting ins2, reply 2


For the original poster I have only one comment: in Chess, each side has the EXACT SAME units...
End of ins2's quote

But each side has 6 distinct types of units which all play differently..

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Hawntah, reply 3


Quoting ins2, reply 2

For the original poster I have only one comment: in Chess, each side has the EXACT SAME units...

But each side has 6 distinct types of units which all play differently..
End of Hawntah's quote

But both players have the same amount of figures with exactly the same distinct abilities. ins2 is right, the analogy does not really fit because we want factions that have differing and unique "figures" that support varied playstyles.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting phazonfreak, reply 4
But both players have the same amount of figures with exactly the same distinct abilities. ins2 is right, the analogy does not really fit because we want factions that have differing and unique "figures" that support varied playstyles.
End of phazonfreak's quote

Although I disagee with the chess analogy, I actually can't disagree with the original post.  The factions do have differences, but not *that* different.  If you make spear armed cavalry with leather armor with one faction and make spear armed cavalry with leather armor as another faction, they will look and act almost identically.  A unique unit type that only that people can make would go a long way.  Ex: Tarth should have rangers, and rangers should have some unique ability and appearance that only they have.  I believe the only examples of this now are Iron Golems and Juggernauts....why doesn't everybody have something like that?

 

Reply #6 Top

Quoting adam95, reply 5


Quoting phazonfreak, reply 4But both players have the same amount of figures with exactly the same distinct abilities. ins2 is right, the analogy does not really fit because we want factions that have differing and unique "figures" that support varied playstyles.

Although I disagee with the chess analogy, I actually can't disagree with the original post.  The factions do have differences, but not *that* different.  If you make spear armed cavalry with leather armor with one faction and make spear armed cavalry with leather armor as another faction, they will look and act almost identically.  A unique unit type that only that people can make would go a long way.  Ex: Tarth should have rangers, and rangers should have some unique ability and appearance that only they have.  I believe the only examples of this now are Iron Golems and Juggernauts....why doesn't everybody have something like that?

 
End of adam95's quote

There is unique stuff for all the races, the thing is that some of it still needs some balancing and some of it is not as flashy as golems or juggernauts. Tarth don't have unique units in that sense, you are right, but they have unique bows which allow you to design unique ranged units. I don't think every race necessarily must have a unit with a unique design (I would love that though), but the unique equipment, buildings, traits can be more flashy and should change the playstyle more radically.

A good example for that is Magnar as "Slave Lord" and the ability to get population by killing enemies and to train cheap slaves. He is really the "Zerg Rush" sovereign. That actually has a profound influence on how to play the game, so much so that some players might hate it because it is not their playstyle at all.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting adam95, reply 5

Quoting phazonfreak, reply 4But both players have the same amount of figures with exactly the same distinct abilities. ins2 is right, the analogy does not really fit because we want factions that have differing and unique "figures" that support varied playstyles.

Although I disagee with the chess analogy, I actually can't disagree with the original post.  The factions do have differences, but not *that* different.  If you make spear armed cavalry with leather armor with one faction and make spear armed cavalry with leather armor as another faction, they will look and act almost identically.  A unique unit type that only that people can make would go a long way.  Ex: Tarth should have rangers, and rangers should have some unique ability and appearance that only they have.  I believe the only examples of this now are Iron Golems and Juggernauts....why doesn't everybody have something like that?

 
End of adam95's quote

All of these things can be added in the game. For example, the rangers having a unique look and style can be done. I've added things like this in FE, frankly the amount of work required to get these units all looking unique and providing a unique look will take far too long, when there are other things they could focus on that a user community cannot provide for the player.

The mechanics of each race do cause them to play differently. Your spear armed calvary with leather armor as Capitar (mancers) will be far more powerful than any other races calvary, due to war horses. That is there special part in this, better horseman. While these same spear armed calvary under tarth, might not be so powerful, but when they are in a small group they become more powerful than other races. Under Umber you have greater numbers and can overwhelm you with their mighty power when in large groups.

Henchman, Iron Golems, Juggernauts are unique to particular races.

Also, I don't quite understand why everybody says these factions play the same, I never play these factions the same because I know I can get a better advantage if I don't play like Tarth, while playing with Altar. I ignore terrain is a biggie, and I can walk next to that monsters nest because I know it won't attack me, is another biggie in different play style. As Procipinee, I play a lot with summons because it is the best option to play and use a lot more magic.

A lot of the similarity is gotten from the Champions that one group may get vs. another. The only real distinction here is the allegiance, empire vs. kingdom. It would nice to see 9 Legendary heroes from each race, and when I play the game I can click a option box, so when I get a champion it is only of my racial bloodline. That would provide a rather large difference between the factions and you will see the factions starting to seperate. You will fear the Krax spears on the ground (1 handed spears, with fortify) rather beefy combo... but can only be done by Krax. There is a uniqueness with each race that one must discover and exploit fully to feel the power of these differences.

Unfortunately, there is no user guide on how to play each indvidual race to feel the power of that race.

Play starcraft races all the same. Try the zerg rush with the protoss and you will find you are severely lacking in troops to overwhelm the enemy position in such a short time. Try the terran defensive strategy with the zerg and you will find a problem there as well.  Would these strategies work with any of these races, yes I've seen them work, but one race is not as effective at the strategy as the other race.

I recommend that instead of saying they are too similar, and start saying what you would like to see in differences at the moment.

Not to sound too critical of the posts here I would say that Phazonfreak, did a great job identifying what he would like to see, and I can agree with it. As for the differences between the races, I for one see large differences between the races.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 7
Not to sound too critical of the posts here I would say that Phazonfreak, did a great job identifying what he would like to see, and I can agree with it. As for the differences between the races, I for one see large differences between the races.
End of parrottmath's quote

I also don't want to sound too critical of the differences between the factions, I think they did a great job and I agree with you that factions play very differently if you really get into it and think over a strategy to utilize their strengths and weaknesses. It was baiting for more differentiation and mods.  :grin:

Reply #9 Top

 Chess analogy was used not to compare Chess with FE, but to make an example of game with very strict rules and limitations which on the other hand give you a lot of opportunities in tactics and strategies. To my belief,  now game provides a lot of unit designs which is too complicated for the AI. More to say a lot of design doesn't need to be, what for? Now it is like opportunities for opportunities.... But much of this opportunities are useless. 

Of course each race is different, and you play them differently, but not too much. In defense of my position answer me one question: why mod "stormlord' was so popular? It is because it gave the feeling of really different factions. Each with its weakness and powers, each with individual look and approach.

That is why when AoW3 will going to appear FE will loose all its positions. For me it is still more interesting to play MoM than FE or LH. Approach that was used in GalCiv cant be used in FE, it is not space strategy it is fantasy. In fantasy there should be tales flavor, magic races and so on. There should be no balance like pikes vs horses, horses vs. bows, bows vs. swords, sword vs. pikes. it is not real life, it is fantasy.... 

If nothing will be changed in this matter than game will simply be forgotten. AoW will crush it easily.