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What Should be in the Next Balance Patch?

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What Should be in the Next Balance Patch?

from Sins Forums

The purpose of this thread is record all balance issues in one place for easy reference and then to suggest changes. Here I'll list some examples of possible solutions from my own ideas and also ideas that have been floating around on the forums. Ideas that are not my own (which is most of them) are marked with an asterisk.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

EDIT: Non-faction specific game play changes.

Remove Pirate Base from Competitive maps, suggestion by ZombiesRus5.

Include option to remove periodic pirate raids but keep the possibility of sending them missions.

 

TEC

Kol Battleship:

Gauss Rail gun ability could benefit from a better secondary effect. For example, a nice buff could give this ability the effect of temporarily stopping passive regen on the target.

EDIT: Or make GRG's AM cost much lower so that it can be spammed; suggestion by Bilun.

Adaptive force field should be rebalanced as a passive ability*.

EDIT: Flak Burst: In addition to its current effects, make this also destroy 2/3/4/5 enemy SC squads; suggestion by Bilun.

 

TEC Loyalists

Hardened Defenses should be moved down to tier 2. EDIT: Additionally, give it the effect of making tactical structures disable-proof. Suggestion by JJBuck2.

EDIT: Militia Weapons and Militia Armour: Get base rank 0 so that they get some benefit before needing any research. Suggestion by Bilun.

EDIT: Grant Twin Fortresses or SB Compartmentalisation the additional effects of granting extra tactical slots and/or additional SB upgrade slots. Suggestion by JJBuck2.

Ankylon Titan:

Group Shield should have its cool down time greatly reduced, possibly by as much as half* and also make it give a shield restore buff to the affected allied ships*.

EDIT: Furious Defense could inflict 20/40/60/80 splash damage with 1500 range when active.* Either this or rebalance Furious Defense as a passive ability that also grants a buff to shield regen*.

Inspire and Impair should affect SC* or Titans (suggestion by HouseRalan).

 

 

Advent

Mass Disorientation could effect SC.* I quite liked this idea when I first saw it although I am skeptical as to its necessity. EDIT: Instead, this should simply be non-interrupt able; suggestion by Seleucia.

Allure of the Unity should be tier 2.* It gives only a 5%/10% allegiance boost to planets and yet is tier 8. Currently not worth it. Should also be just 1 level; suggestion by Seleucia.

EDIT: Final Judgement should target enemy cap ships and Titans; suggestion by Seleucia.

Revelation Battlecruiser:

EDIT: The Guidance ability on the Revelation coordinates the assault on target enemy The revelation grants all nearby allies +5/10/15/20% accuracy and the targeted enemy takes 8/12/16/20% extra damage for  for 25 seconds.

Cooldown: 30 seconds

Am cost: 60

 

Advent Loyalists

EDIT:

Base value of damage in culture bonus increased to 5%. Suggestion by Bilun.

EDIT: Planet for a Planet: Should Last 750 seconds. Suggestion by Bilun. Possibly this should also activate upon scuttling of a colony so that it is less situational. Suggestion by ZombiesRus5.

Fury of the Unity: Moved to Hostility Tree or greatly dropped in tier (suggested by ZombiesRus5)

Cowards Submission: Increase conversion chance e.g to 10%. Suggestion by Bilun.

Global Unity should be moved down to tier 3. Deemed unnecessary by GoaFan.

Assimilated Populace should grant its effect upon use of Repossession*. Drop this tech down to tier 2*.  It is ridiculous that a faction whose theme is synergy has upgrades that are designed to not synergise. It would be as if the Eradica's Purification ability didn't activate the buff granted by Strength of the Fallen.

 

Coronata:

Subjugating Assault: This should grant the same amount of exp as when a target is destroyed*.

Suppression Aura should effect SC or possibly corvettes instead but this would probably require a stat nerf so that the debuff that it grants isn't so large*. A passive 40% damage nerf and ~60% speed nerf to enemy bombers might be excessive.

Repossession should reduce the price of planetary upgrades by 33%/66% instead of 0%/33% as it is now.

 

 

Advent Rebels

 

Cleanse and Renew: Although the tech description for this upgrade is fairly vague, it doesn't sound worth getting. It seems as though it gives allied ships bonus AM when you destroy an enemy colony. But by the time an enemy colony is destroyed, the enemy fleet has typically been beaten so the extra AM isn't really a benefit. It would be much better if this tech just granted a large and long lasting AM regen boost to allied ships at an enemy planet when said planet takes damage.

Mass Communion: As pointed out in other thread, this tech just doesn't fit with the AR theme and is pretty much worthless as well. If it had no research prerequisites than it would actually save costs on media hub construction.

 

Vasari

Gravity Warhead: Change this so that it cannot target Titans, thanks Seleucia.

Bombers: I think every one agrees that their DPS per supply needs to be 30% lower in comparison to the other factions bombers*. Furthermore, it is their damage per shot that needs to be reduced in order to lower their DPS. Merely lowering their RoF won't help since they would still reach critical mass too easily and one-shot kill important ships.

EDIT: The defensive turret's Disruptive Nanites upgrade should not disable passive regen on Titans for 5 minutes (thanks Zombie for looking that up)*. That is just excessive. A 30 second debuff is enough.

Phasic Trap needs reduced range, reduced duration and increased cool-down time. Probably unnecessary.

 

Vasari Loyalists:

Vorastra:

Desperation: This shouldn't inflict splash damage on corvettes*. After initial skepticism, it became obvious that this needs to be nerfed.

The Maw: (EDIT) Make this ability interrupt able.

 

Vasari Rebels:

 Star Base Mobilisation: (EDIT) Make Orkies only capable of jumping between planets that have phase nodes*.

 

106,293 views 129 replies
Reply #101 from Sins Forums Top

JuleTron you somehow swapped the quotations, just check your reply 100, there are some unclear things for others who don't know every detail. :D although it's not that important.

Reply #102 from Sins Forums Top

The truly terrible thing about the jumping orky is that it keeps the antimodule armor, which makes all incoming damage greatly reduced.

vs module armor and vs capital and vs titan.

light     .35     .5     .45
med     .5     .75     .75
hvy     .5     .5     .45
vhvy     .65     .6     .55
mod     2.0     1.0     1.0
comp     .75     .75     .7
cap     .75     1.0     .95
cap ability 1.0     .75     .75
titan     .75     1.0     1.0

Give Jumping Orky (yes, new entities needed) capital armor, boost (in constants) the multiplier for module weapon vs capital armor, and adjust the toughness down 20%. 

ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #103 from Sins Forums Top

Juletron probably didn't mess up the quotes...the forums themselves do that quite frequently...

Reply #104 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 103
JuleTron you somehow swapped the quotations, just check your reply 100, there are some unclear things for others who don't know every detail. although it's not that important.
End of Seleuceia's quote

Huh?

Reply #105 from Sins Forums Top

Zombie either you are trolling or different browsers/computers display the forums differently....

For example, the quote you just made was a post by Turchany in reply 101, yet it states that it was a quote of mine in reply 103...

Of course, there is also no reply 104...so either the devs posted after me and then deleted it, the forums can't count, or the programming uses a flawed counter variable when auto-creating quote headings....

Reply #106 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 103
Zombie either you are trolling or different browsers/computers display the forums differently....

For example, the quote you just made was a post by Turchany in reply 101, yet it states that it was a quote of mine in reply 103...

Of course, there is also no reply 104...so either the devs posted after me and then deleted it, the forums can't count, or the programming uses a flawed counter variable when auto-creating quote headings....
End of Seleuceia's quote

lol

Reply #107 from Sins Forums Top

Back to topic please!

 

 

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 50
Quoting ARESIV,
reply 49
As for the late game strong economic side of the TEC Loyalists, it is not existant. Because their late game is not strong, in fact it is the weakest of all late games. They cannot win wars of attrition... not against TEC Rebel and Advent and most certainly not against Vasari.

You seem to be the only one that holds that extreme of an opinion.
End of GoaFan77's quote

 

 

The problem is that Novaliths are more or less hard countered by Starbases. Now add a Titan that cannot deal very good with enemy starbases and you run into some serious problems: See this replay: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/438929

 

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 50
I disagree, and I'm an AR player. Now that Unyielding will starts giving the bonus before the titan dies, there is no reason for the invincibility time to last that long. It should go back to its prebuff state.
End of GoaFan77's quote

 

People complained loudly about the lack of usability of Unyielding Will before it had "pre death" effects. Because any halfway smart enemy would just run away. And any smart enemy will still run away when the Eradica goes on rampage. That pretty much leaves static defenses and buildings as possible vicitims imho.

  

Quoting barebalo, reply 62
3. The Minidumps and late game lag I know can be fixed we've seen moders and other games do it but never really set down and heard stardock work on the issue.
End of barebalo's quote

 

They work hard on the issue.... it just isnt exactly easy to track down. Make sure to send all your minidumps to:

rebellionsupport@stardock.com

 

that will help them to find the cause. Oddly enough some people have terrible minidumps while others - like myself had maybe 3 ever since Beta 1.

 

 

Quoting barebalo, reply 66
that makes no sense if thats the case then someone can just run they're lvl 6 eradica into a fleet munch most of it while its invincible and then move the rest of they're fleet in and mop up, either you stay and get munched, run away and lose the planet and if you do run then you now have to make the decision to move forward hoping you have enough left over to kill they're fleet or hang back all the while the other person is rebuilding they're titan, the time and cost is irrelevant late game i have no problem at all fielding a replacement for my titan the money is little compared to a late game economy and the time it takes you to burn a fleet, push past defenses and planets i could do it all over again and much a fleet
End of barebalo's quote

 

Bombing a planet is a very time consuming process and a tremendous waste of an invulnerable Eradica. All Advent Titans do only 43 bombing damage compared to the 90 of all other factions.

 

If the Eradica "died" changes are good that the Advent lost the battle anyway. So that means once it has finished throwing its temper tantrum, the Advent fleet likely cannot offer much resistance against your winning fleet.

 

Quoting JuleTron, reply 73
Quoting bilun,
reply 70
Coward's submission:

If Cowards Submission was activated each time an enemy ship was ordered to phase jump, (instead of upon activating the phase engines) then captured ships might have a higher chance of survival.
End of JuleTron's quote

 

I like this idea a lot.

 

 

Quoting JuleTron, reply 73
Allowing mind controlled units to retain their research could be OP since it could give them access to Ceilo's Designate Target or the Subverter's AOE disable ability.
End of JuleTron's quote

 

True, would be op. Besides, that does not work with the game engine.

 

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 74

Quoting JuleTron, reply 73Quoting bilun, reply 70
Fury of the Unity:
A different approach could be to move it to the Hostility tree. By buffing this tech, the late game balance between TEC and AL might be thrown off. If the Vasari were merely as strong as the other races, I don't think that there would be any complaints about this.

Really? TEC Loyalists get a 30% weapons and 4 armor buff and just for being in an owned gravity well. I think Fury of the Unity could have been the Tier 2 tech after the first two culture upgrades considering it's only a 10% buff which would help early game but hardly be game changing mid or late game. T8 should be game changing which this is clearly not.

 
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

 

Yes, 30 % firepower increase and 4 armor increase is nice, however works only on owned planets..... that makes it a lot more situational than any other flat out increase.

  

Quoting bilun, reply 76
This would be fantastic as it would encourage the Advent loyals to embrace the classic Advent tactic of "forget the harmony tree, all the good stuff is in Hostility". The Advent Loyals in general has their goodies too split up between trees- Ancient ret is T6 hostility, Fury T8 harmony, and all their low tier techs are trash.
End of bilun's quote

Generally, we should aim at making both tech trees useful so I dislike leaning to heavy on just one.

 

 

Quoting JuleTron, reply 76
On the subject of Ancient Retribution, I've lately been toying with the idea of removing the shield mitigation buff or the range buff and replacing it with a phase missile block buff.
End of JuleTron's quote

 

Advent desperately need a good phase missile block so I like this idea.

 

Quoting JuleTron, reply 78
Giving Militia Weapons and Armour a tier 0 affect would give the TL something unique at the start of the game.
End of JuleTron's quote

 

I like this idea a lot.

 

Possible one could also add a further level at Tier 8 with 8 armor points and 50 % firepower increase. That would certainly make assaults on TEC Loyalists a lot more painfull. Right now it is more an annoyance.

 

 

 

 

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 82
The fact still stands AL has to build 14 labs to get it's 30% damage bonus from rebellion, while TL only has to build 5 military labs. I'm not complaining about the damage bonus itself which is good, just when it's available.
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

 

As mentioned before, the TL Militia buff is situational, so it is at best useful in 50 % of all cases.

 

 

A lower tier for the AL Damage techs would still be a good idea.

 

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 82
Mine Control (WTF and Tier 2) - No idea why this was even deemed cool. Can't think of a way to make it cool either.
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

 

It is very cool because it saves you from painstaking mine clearing. Especially in games against the AI. ,

 

 

 

Keep up the discussion people! :grin:

Reply #108 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting HouseRalan, reply 102
The truly terrible thing about the jumping orky is that it keeps the antimodule armor, which makes all incoming damage greatly reduced.

vs module armor and vs capital and vs titan.

light     .35     .5     .45
med     .5     .75     .75
hvy     .5     .5     .45
vhvy     .65     .6     .55
mod     2.0     1.0     1.0
comp     .75     .75     .7
cap     .75     1.0     .95
cap ability 1.0     .75     .75
titan     .75     1.0     1.0

Give Jumping Orky (yes, new entities needed) capital armor, boost (in constants) the multiplier for module weapon vs capital armor, and adjust the toughness down 20%. 
End of HouseRalan's quote

 

Also the anti-heavy weapons on the orky make them the only starbase(and consequently one of the only "big ships" aka titans, caps, & starbases) that can actually deal damage to corvettes effectively(not to mention orky gets an extra target per bank).

Reply #109 from Sins Forums Top

EDIT: TEC Loyalist section of OP updated.

Quoting Bilun, reply 100
Your missing the joke- Beta 1 only had the TEC in it.
End of Bilun's quote

You had the decency to tell me when I've been trolled. Thanks.

Quoting ARESIV, reply 108
A lower tier for the AL Damage techs would still be a good idea.
End of ARESIV's quote

Lowering Fury's tier or shifting it to Hostility achieves a similar affect but in different ways. I would support any change that makes it easiest to get both Fury and Ancient Retribution (without being OP of course).

 

Quoting Bilun, reply 109
Also the anti-heavy weapons on the orky make them the only starbase(and consequently one of the only "big ships" aka titans, caps, & starbases) that can actually deal damage to corvettes effectively(not to mention orky gets an extra target per bank).
End of Bilun's quote

lol, like the Orky needed another advantage.

 

Reply #110 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ARESIV, reply 108
Quoting barebalo, reply 66
that makes no sense if thats the case then someone can just run they're lvl 6 eradica into a fleet munch most of it while its invincible and then move the rest of they're fleet in and mop up, either you stay and get munched, run away and lose the planet and if you do run then you now have to make the decision to move forward hoping you have enough left over to kill they're fleet or hang back all the while the other person is rebuilding they're titan, the time and cost is irrelevant late game i have no problem at all fielding a replacement for my titan the money is little compared to a late game economy and the time it takes you to burn a fleet, push past defenses and planets i could do it all over again and much a fleet
 

Bombing a planet is a very time consuming process and a tremendous waste of an invulnerable Eradica. All Advent Titans do only 43 bombing damage compared to the 90 of all other factions.

 

If the Eradica "died" changes are good that the Advent lost the battle anyway. So that means once it has finished throwing its temper tantrum, the Advent fleet likely cannot offer much resistance against your winning fleet.
End of ARESIV's quote

 

Sorry I think i didn't get my point through, what i meant was if you fly a lvl 6 eradica in by its self and then it throws a tantrum the enemy fleet either sets there and gets munched or flies away either way I can move my fleet in a the edge of the well let my bombers deal with things while you decide whether its worth flying through my eradica to attack my fleet and if you leave then just burn the planet with 14 cap ships and build your own defenses, whether you have a titan or not your not taking a full fleet and planet defenses with just a fleet, and while your waiting the titan is being rebuilt for a rinse and repeat.

The point was that the invul doesn't necessarily last to long in my opinion its their last horrah and i like that but it needs to have some kind of loss to it as of right now being able to field the same titan straight out of the factory has no loss to just throwing it at an enemy fleet

 

Reply #111 from Stardock Forums Top

another reason to make titans lose 1 level when they die

Reply #112 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DunmeriSpellsword, reply 112
another reason to make titans lose 1 level when they die
End of DunmeriSpellsword's quote

 

Just. NO. It is good as it is now, consider losing your titan, you will have no chance against the opponent's titan if your titan gets weaker when it is killed, even 1 level can make big difference. It's hard to get a titan to level2 and if you lose it you will have a level1 and if your enemy can make his titan level 4 or 5 while your titan is rebuilt you will have absolutely no chance. I know losing levels would be good for singleplayer guys, but if I were one, i wouldn't want this, because having to deal with a strong AI titan multiple times is fun (because AI is too stupid to live till tomorrow, only can build massed fleets but cant use them wisely), online keeping titan levels is crucial. The Eradica is strong but look at Advent Rebel, what does it have? From most online games banned wail, can get ships back from the afterlife and get some of the destroyed ships, but these are not that huge improvements, this faction without the Eradica is weak like Advent Loyalist, especially against Vasari they don't stand any chance, cause wonderful phase missiles kill advent titans before you would notice the warning of shields down (because it will die before it). (I am still shocked developers didn't change much about phase missiles even after receiving that much complaining from forum guys, haven't they played with Advent against Vasari???)

Reply #113 from Sins Forums Top

Some ideas

Anky -weapon boost

  • 146/5 for lasertech, 256/8 for beam, 300/10 for missiles
  • Set targetsperbank to 2/2/2/2 instead of 2/2/3/3
  • Furious Defense -add in shield hp/s
  • Disrupt Matrix -wish it were like Group Shields in that GS can be targeted over an area


Rag -multiple boosts

  • Railgun -1300/10 (about same level as Gauss Blast)
  • Snipe -600/800/1000/1200 to hull only; 1200/1600/2000/2400 to shields only
    • Overcharging 1200/1600/2000/2400 to hull only; 1200/1600/2000/2400 to shields only

Kol Gauss Blast -300/400/500/600 to hull only; 400/500/600/700 to shields only
Beam Blast -split damage 30/70 between hull only and shield only.  It's not exactly spam city like KolGB.

Vasari Rebels

  • New Rebel Colony Frigate -with 2 different abilities to deploy 1 of 2 different starbases.
  • Orky becomes stationary, purely defensive and civil.
    • http://pastebin.com/YydFfqyC
    • no phase jumping because it's stationary!
    • retains all current starbase upgrades
    • "AbilityPhaseStarbaseSameOrbitbodyDebuff" removed
  • New Assault Starbase is mobile with 275 speed

Both starbases can be built when "RESEARCHSUBJECT_ABILITYACCESS_DEPLOYSTARBASEPHASE" is researched, but starbase mobilization still needed to permit phase jumping.  If you notice early game that the player is setting up assault starbases instead of defensive, you'll know what they are planning and be able to counter better than suddenly seeing an Orky rush. Sure, they might jump another starbase in on your ass if you kill one, but they're soft somewhere.

StringInfo
    ID "IDS_RESEARCHSUBJECT_STARBASE_MOBILIZATION_DESCRIPTION"
    Value "Installs jump drives on the Nethosu Starbase, the crowning achievement in nanotechnology. Stripped of systems needed by biologicals, they are programmed to leave behind nothing that THE enemy could use later against your empire."

StringInfo
    ID "IDS_ABILITY_DEPLOYSTARBASEPHASEJUMPER_NAME"
    Value "Deploy Cleanser"

StringInfo
    ID "IDS_ABILITY_DEPLOYSTARBASEPHASEJUMPER_DESC"
    Value "Begins construction of a jump-capable, Nethosu Starbase at the frigate's present location."

StringInfo
    ID "IDS_STARBASEPHASEJUMPER_NAME"
    Value "Nethosu Starbase"

StringInfo
    ID "IDS_FRIGATE_PHASECOLONYREBEL_DESCRIPTION"
    Value "A large frigate stocking the necessary supplies to establish new outposts on uncontested planets.  Establishes stationary or mobile assault starbases in orbit."

Gameplay.constants

  • Adjustment to module weapon vs capital armor to 2.0 so antimodule vessels are still useful against the jumping assault starbase.


I have nothing about the advent... well, maybe they could have 30% block to phase weapons so they don't get sliced and diced.

 

Reply #114 from Stardock Forums Top

give em a tier 3 tech for 5/10% phase block, then another at tech 5 for 15/20% then another at tech 7 for 25/30%.

Make them all in the same research chain, like the regular shield techs.  DO NOT put them in another existing research chain, since as likely as not, it will ruin the tech.

Reply #115 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Turchany, reply 113
Just. NO. It is good as it is now, consider losing your titan, you will have no chance against the opponent's titan if your titan gets weaker when it is killed, even 1 level can make big difference. It's hard to get a titan to level2 and if you lose it you will have a level1 and if your enemy can make his titan level 4 or 5 while your titan is rebuilt you will have absolutely no chance. I know losing levels would be good for singleplayer guys, but if I were one, i wouldn't want this, because having to deal with a strong AI titan multiple times is fun (because AI is too stupid to live till tomorrow, only can build massed fleets but cant use them wisely), online keeping titan levels is crucial. The Eradica is strong but look at Advent Rebel, what does it have? From most online games banned wail, can get ships back from the afterlife and get some of the destroyed ships, but these are not that huge improvements, this faction without the Eradica is weak like Advent Loyalist, especially against Vasari they don't stand any chance, cause wonderful phase missiles kill advent titans before you would notice the warning of shields down (because it will die before it). (I am still shocked developers didn't change much about phase missiles even after receiving that much complaining from forum guys, haven't they played with Advent against Vasari???)
End of Turchany's quote

 

This makes no sense, your basing this off of a style of gameplay that is titan only, just because you have a lower level titan then another team doesn't mean you lose just means you have to pay differently. While your titan is being rebuilt its not like the other titan is going to get free xp for just sitting there and having some kind of loss to your titan dying would make people think before they just run their titan around like a fat kid on a sugar high. The way it is now makes the game a titan based thing and thats not what sins is about. it honestly ruins the game in the sense that all people do is build titans and rush to get the higher level and then just run it around and if it dies oh well just rebuild it

Reply #116 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DunmeriSpellsword, reply 115
give em a tier 3 tech for 5/10% phase block, then another at tech 5 for 15/20% then another at tech 7 for 25/30%.

Make them all in the same research chain, like the regular shield techs.  DO NOT put them in another existing research chain, since as likely as not, it will ruin the tech.
End of DunmeriSpellsword's quote

Not sure if this research is being offered for TEC or Advent. If its TEC i say no just because it would make the TEC to much like the Advent and shields is not what the TEC is about their shields are miniscule at best their armor and the ability to mass produce ships at low cost is their play style.

I do think that since the advent are pretty much entirely shield based and have relatively low health and armor compared to the other two races that they need to have maybe a little more help with the phase missles but I also agree that phase missles are a little over powered and give the firepower advatage to the vasari in a way that honestly unbalances the game

Reply #117 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with the Anky changes although i don't necessarily like the idea of Disruption Matrix being a shot out AoE since it makes it to similar to other cap ships and such I like it the way it is, but I like the idea of making it more like a support ships.

I don't really like the changes to the Gauss Cannons on the Rag since they are supposed to be just like having gauss platforms on your ships I do think they should have the other upgrades from the researches, IE Meson Bolt, Rocket Pods and stuff. But keep their damage relative to what they would be if they were built in a grav well and let the dmg plus' from the titan levels only upgrade the auto cannons and missles. 

I think that Railgun is good dmg wise just needs a side effect to make it more useful and beam blast i dont' agree with but I did like the idea proposed awhile back to make the shield tech more useful or even to make the flak ability a passive that adds flak guns to the titan allowing it to be more useful in SC fights

 

As for the vasari stuff a couple questions, apologize now if you stated them and i missed it...

1. If you say the Orky is stationary does that mean that it will no longer be able to move within a grav well or will it just not be able to phase jump

2. What is the penalty or cost, outside of resources, that one would require to balance the existence of a second starbase that could move. Example, could a person have 2 Assault starbases in one spot since they are weaker or could they have an Orky and an Assault in the same well. 

3. If you do intend on the Assault base acting more so like a new capital ship rather then a starbase what would this starbase cost fleet supply and cap ship cost. 

 

I dont' necessarily disagree with this idea in fact i like it a lot but it seems like there would be a lot of unbalances and grieving issues with something like that. 

Reply #118 from Stardock Forums Top

I was referring to the Advent.

Reply #119 from Sins Forums Top

Heard, then i do agree, I'd like to see them be able to fend off the phase missles better since their armor is kind of bunk by late game.

Reply #120 from Sins Forums Top

barb

Quoting barebalo, reply 118
I agree with the Anky changes although i don't necessarily like the idea of Disruption Matrix being a shot out AoE since it makes it to similar to other cap ships and such I like it the way it is, but I like the idea of making it more like a support ships.

I don't really like the changes to the Gauss Cannons on the Rag since they are supposed to be just like having gauss platforms on your ships I do think they should have the other upgrades from the researches, IE Meson Bolt, Rocket Pods and stuff. But keep their damage relative to what they would be if they were built in a grav well and let the dmg plus' from the titan levels only upgrade the auto cannons and missles. 

I think that Railgun is good dmg wise just needs a side effect to make it more useful and beam blast i dont' agree with but I did like the idea proposed awhile back to make the shield tech more useful or even to make the flak ability a passive that adds flak guns to the titan allowing it to be more useful in SC fights

 

As for the vasari stuff a couple questions, apologize now if you stated them and i missed it...

1. If you say the Orky is stationary does that mean that it will no longer be able to move within a grav well or will it just not be able to phase jump

2. What is the penalty or cost, outside of resources, that one would require to balance the existence of a second starbase that could move. Example, could a person have 2 Assault starbases in one spot since they are weaker or could they have an Orky and an Assault in the same well. 

3. If you do intend on the Assault base acting more so like a new capital ship rather then a starbase what would this starbase cost fleet supply and cap ship cost. 

 

I dont' necessarily disagree with this idea in fact i like it a lot but it seems like there would be a lot of unbalances and grieving issues with something like that. 
End of barebalo's quote

understood on dismatrix.

Barb, with 2 starbases, the orky would have to be stationary or when research for starbase mobilization is done, it would -because it could move- be able to phase jump also.

  1. Unless they have twin fortresses, they can only have 1 starbase in their gravity well. But ... actually it would be to their advantage to have twin fortresses like research item so they could move bases easier unless there are 2 orkies already there.  Might test that on my own.

  2. No way to get a starbase to cost fleet supply and cap ship cost... unless you made a capital entity file use the Orky mesh and set things out nicely... then it could be beaconed in as a Capital -but that'd just be strange to see an Orky arrive out of nowhere at your planet.  It also wouldn't have the starbase upgrades and would be cheesy.

  3. It is fun, but not as unbalanced as having a fully upgraded Orky now with full civilian population, trade ports, etc... suddenly moving around wiping out anything that gets in its way except a titan backed fleet and lots of anti-module ships.
Reply #121 from Sins Forums Top

Everyone keeps suggesting making adaptive forcefield a passive to fix the long suffering Kol.

That is the wrong approach, the Kol is best as a ship that balances its offensive output and survivability. Still it is too hungry it needs a passive.

I'm going to offer the unorthodox choice.

Make Flak burst passive, tune it obviously but make it so that strike craft take damage whenever they are in proximity to a KOL.  Yes Bomber Alpha will still get off at least one strike, but that's still doable with flak burst as a high alpha triggered ability anyway.  Now you'll have a ship that can shield other units from Strike craft, and really turns the strike craft dynamic on its head. Making it less effective to use Strike Craft against a Tec player as the game progresses. Forcing opponents to come face you in a stand up Fight (as is the Tec philosophy).

My other idea is to make the Defense tree Gauss upgrades apply to the Gauss Rail Gun ability. Reducing its cooldown (and Antimatter cost) and increasing its range and damage.

Those two changes immediately make the Kol a much more competitive ship.

Reply #122 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Jdr0276, reply 122
Everyone keeps suggesting making adaptive forcefield a passive to fix the long suffering Kol.

That is the wrong approach, the Kol is best as a ship that balances its offensive output and survivability. Still it is too hungry it needs a passive.

I'm going to offer the unorthodox choice.

Make Flak burst passive, tune it obviously but make it so that strike craft take damage whenever they are in proximity to a KOL.  Yes Bomber Alpha will still get off at least one strike, but that's still doable with flak burst as a high alpha triggered ability anyway.  Now you'll have a ship that can shield other units from Strike craft, and really turns the strike craft dynamic on its head. Making it less effective to use Strike Craft against a Tec player as the game progresses. Forcing opponents to come face you in a stand up Fight (as is the Tec philosophy).

My other idea is to make the Defense tree Gauss upgrades apply to the Gauss Rail Gun ability. Reducing its cooldown (and Antimatter cost) and increasing its range and damage.

Those two changes immediately make the Kol a much more competitive ship.
End of Jdr0276's quote

Workable.

 

People (like me) say make adapt. forcefield passive or free because it will help, not because it fixes things completely.

the Kol needs a fairly basic buff to make it useful.

#1 Make grg cost 40 antimatter and have it slow the target by 80% for the current duration; same cooldown

#2 Make flak burst cost 80 antimatter/or have the radius boosted by 20%; same cooldown

 

here's where I get kinda radical:

#3 Make the Kol's ultimate ability damage the kol 20/second, make the duration 30 seconds, keep cooldown the same, same aoe damage, and during the ability, have the kol able to target 2/2/2/2 instead of 1/1/1/1.

 

here's where I get radical:

#4 make adaptive forcefield a passive that shields 15/25/35% of phase missiles and makes shields 15/20/25% more effective

                                                                          --OR--  (and I like this idea a lot)

Make adaptive forcefield cost 0 antimatter,  shield 30/40/50% of all phase missiles fired against any ship within a moderate radius of the ship, improve shielding on the kol by 40% while this is happening, make the duration 2/4/6 seconds and the cooldown 25 seconds.

Reply #123 from Sins Forums Top

For TEC loyalist:

 

Shield generators become adaptive shield generators, and affect SB's and all defensive structures except itself. Can cover other shield generators but shields do not stack.  Stats identical to Kol's level 1, with the 2 upgrades increased to 3, cost decreased accordingly for tier reduction, with the effectiveness becoming equivalent to kol's level 2,3,4.  (15-23-32-40% DR and 25-42-58-75% phase missle block respectively)Planetary protection only gets the damage reduction of adaptive shielding, not original value of 30,50, 80%.  Costs same anti-matter with same cooldown as kol levels.  (40-50-60-70 AM cost and 20-29-37-46 sec duration 45-40-35-30 sec cooldown)  Shield generator has 300 AM like it does now but doesn't use.  Numbers subject to change, but would like to keep the idea in general.  Actually makes the planetary shield worth using.

Reply #124 from Sins Forums Top

Juan, that's too Advent.

Adaptive Shield and Flak Burst -half the antimatter.  You really don't want passives on a capital, AI screws up worse than Gump vs Unix.

Reply #125 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting HouseRalan, reply 125
You really don't want passives on a capital, AI screws up worse than Gump vs Unix.
End of HouseRalan's quote

Disruptive strikes is possibly one of the best abilities there is, and I don't see how passives would screw up the AI.