[Suggestion] Tech Trees (mainly Warfare) are too Lineal. Ideas to branch it more.

from Stardock Forums

As times goes and more players are participating in forums, I've seen some suggestions/complaints about the Tech Trees.

Basically, many of them can be summarized in that certain Techs are far in the Tech Tree, so when you are able to reach them, they get obsolete/useless.

Apart from that, I find 2 important problems with current Tech Trees:

- Linearity. Always, always following the same route --> Civic Tree (first tier, probably second) and then turn to Warfare for horses. Then, Magic Tree might be an alternative if shards/crystal/ magic faction. But the choices reduced to little than that. Yes, you can make some alternative instead, but it is situational. After the choice, again you find stuck in a linear Tech.

- All factions follow same Tech tree (90-95% at least). Only specific henchmen/sion/juggernaut...

 

Going to the techs usually referred:

- Alliances. Ogres and merks could play a role in the early/mid game, but surely not in the late game. I guess they were fit there as a "logical" prerequisite for Dance with Dragons, but the results...is that you get them ONLY as a must for the Dragons.

- Bows. The same for low level bows, now they still appear in a mid Tech Tree.

- Siege weapons. Some have posted that crude versions should be available sooner. I agree, as when high weapons appear, catapults might seem pretty prescindible.

- Daggers, short swords or an equivalent crude cutting weapon. Well, they already appear soon in the tech tree, but some people asked it. If someone is interested in modifying Tech Trees, sure this could be taken in mind.

- A heavy leather armour (no iron/ little iron) is demanded too.

- I'll add here more of your suggestions.

 

Frogboy posted that soon will allow modding the Tech tree (sorry, canf find now the link), so I  think it is a good moment to make a discussion about how to improve it.

I would start by changing the standard Tree, before suggesting (if possible)  1) that each faction should have its own, specific Tech tree (more or less different)

                                                                                                               2) Deep changes in current techs

                                                                                                               3) New techs

 

- Branches for the Warfare Tree. Unfortunately, IMO Warfare would need many modifications. I think there should be at least 4 main branches since the beggining

        1) Armour Branch. From here, techs related to armours.

        2) Weapon branch. Idem. 2 branches: non-ranged and ranged. If you want deep changes, then a branch for each type (cutting, blunt, pierce, ranged)

        3) Training Branch. For buildings related with training time, production costs, and any other bonus.Defensive bonus might require certain Techs from 1 and 2.

        4) Extras. For riding mounts, etc. I would put here the ogres and the merck camps.

What do you think? If there is enough discussion, I'll add ideas for the rest of Trees

5,191 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

One of many reasons I enjoyed CTP 2 so much: http://www.scribd.com/doc/58682717/Call-to-Power-2-Tech-Tree

Something I would like is the possibility of alternative Tech paths, that may converge on the same tech, but without requiring the other path.

Like if Tech A and Tech B both lead into Tech C, Rather than A&B=C (A and B required). You could do A|B=C (A or B required).

An example could be having Horse Riding and Warg Riding on the same rung. Then have them lead into another 'mounted training' tech which unlocks both the stable and the kennel leading from either two previous techs. This could be done with deeper weapon or armour tech trees. Or even, if expanded on, perk trees.

Another example of the current tech could be having armour and weapon tech lead to techs which unlock the army upgrades and war college type things, but are reachable with either weapon techs or armour techs. New techs after the 'common' tech might need to be an AND case with the 'common' tech and the tech you researched to get to the 'common' tech. So you cant research armour up until the best weapon set, then start researching that, without needing to research any weapons. However that might be an interesting dynamic of the system.

Start going up one path, then decide you have what you need, using your advanced knowledge and production techniques, pursue a new line of research without having to start all the way from the begging.

It's crazy, but that’s what I'm all about.

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

I will say this - if you are playing Altarian (or a faction with access to henchmen) the tech tree is largely irrelevant past the first 2 rows of civ techs, the two techs you need to get to horses, and the 4 magic techs that lead to heroes and henchmen.  That's it - after that, for the most part it barely matters what I pick - though I often b-line for tireless march. 

With other factions - i dunno, the tech tree seems so bland.  I usually hit the mining/construction techs since everything takes so bloody long to build, even after I have the unrest under control, and there is so bloody much to build.  Honestly I think the tech tree needs a complete overhaul.

 

PS - Birth of Summer (and the Empire version, I forget the name) is much too far down the tech tree.  By that time, pioneer spam from EVERY faction, regardless of who it is, has covered the world. 300 Mana is already prohibitive,  but if I'm in an area where there is a lot of space between fertile lands, I'd love to cast the spell before it simply becomes imperative that I spam it with outposts before the enemy does.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

- Linearity. Always, always following the same route --> Civic Tree (first tier, probably second) and then turn to Warfare for horses. Then, Magic Tree might be an alternative if shards/crystal/ magic faction. But the choices reduced to little than that. Yes, you can make some alternative instead, but it is situational. After the choice, again you find stuck in a linear Tech.
End of quote

This linearity you speak of is not as linear as you think. https://forums.elementalgame.com/432900 was my question on the subject about the tech-tree strategy in the early game. I wanted to know what people did in the beginning so I can start forming an alternate strategy and found a variety of answers here. Some strategies are quite viable without going through the civic tree first. There are times when I go leather armor first, so I can get a reliable source of armor early to take on all the weak mobs. With that armor alone you can take on a lot more things that without and the drops are not so reliable.

But I digress from your topic. The tech tree I have mixed feelings about because I just don't know of the perfect strategy and I never make 1 choice all the time when I play. The randomness always dictates what I research next. As for the length it takes to get to these techs, this was the purpose of the fast pacing. Make research go faster. It was suggested to reduce production times as well, but I would like to see an option for speed of research and speed of production as two seperate options. Because what if I want slow production and fast research. Basically slow the war game down, but when you get to the point where you want to build units, every unit is already available. Makes the game about building stronger units slowly. The flip side, slow research and fast production is all about the fielding weak units and constant warfare giving your champions leadership roles to minor troops... But again I digress.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I am working on the warfare tree currently along with some inputs into both the civ and magic tree with my armor mod.  However, if you have some inputs on how to handle weapon unlocks, I believe I have the armor problem solved mostly thanks to feedback and trial and error, please let me know. I am always open for input as this is a tough nut to crack for tech progressions.