chichi, I probably regret saying this, but what the heck...
I've always thought a great deal of you and respected you a bunch. But I must admit that lately I haven't read anything from you here that wasn't a direct attack on Stardock, Brad, this site or its admins. And I must admit I am starting to be a bit disapointed in you.
I've always known you as a sweet person. Why so much negativity lately?
Sure, you're allowed your opinions. But please try to diversify a little bit, not always just attacks and critics.

Peace, chichi. Please.

Chichi, lighten up.

.....Disney, ESPN, PC Magazine, NBA, NFL, PlayStation, Upoc, HBO, Adobe, Macromedia.....

yes we are being used by Stardock...

but we are also using them......

I still think it is a community site because its free for all to use.

.... MTV, BET, VH1, E!, SNL, Vibe Magazine, Source, Wall Street....

Peoples...chichi, like most of us, has personal real-life [tm] issues that can and will inadvertently colour your impressions of things in general.
Sometimes it's hard to separate the 'bad' in one environment from the 'mediocre' in another....and perhaps things come out 'less successfully' than one might have wished. {I'll say no more on the subject], chichi...

BTW....the 'if you don't like it, leave' comment is mild in comparison to what you will encounter at some other sites [name and address withheld]...

Lecrayon...
Public corporations....those listed on the stock-market may be obliged to reveal corporate information, but private companies....no, no more than you as a person would be required to disclose your income/tax/whatever...

Just between you and me:

After reading all this thread (and some others in the past weeks), I am disapointed to see how some are fast to find bugs and basically start "fights" on words. I mean, yes we can voice our opinion and it's up to each and everyone to take what they want from what is written but at the same time, and it's just my very humble low-level opinion, but I find that some threads/posts are "polluting" figuratively speaking the board and shouldn't be there. I mean, for me the question is: what does it bring to the community constructively speaking? Does it help doing one more step forward or is it just a step backward?

Some invoke the fact they are customers and own the right to express their opinions but me too i'm a "legit" customer and I also have the right, in this case, [start of my freedom of speech] to say I that I don't appreciate "word fights" and that I wish they never make it to the board. When I come around, it is to relax from my day to day very stressful job and try to enjoy my passion with others. Honestly, between you and me, when I read some posts, I feel more frustration than anything because I honestly don't expect to be enflammed by "unecessary spicy" topics on a board dedicated to the art of skinning. "Well, don't read them" you might say, and you're right. But just as you reading these lines, my curiosity is so strong that I can't resist reading them and it's a human behavior I don't want to exploit when I come here So if they were just not there, it would be naturally easier to resist [end of my freedom of speech]

Ok, I know that by writting this post I might not help the cause of "good manners" because i'm confident it will surely tease someone who will shortely reply to my post and express his (her) opinion about it. Then I will have to reply saying I didn't meant what he(she) understood, we'll launch another word fight and it will start all over again...

Seriously, my intentions here aren't to point at anyone (really!) but rather to express my feelings toward certain human attitudes I've noticed. Maybe my understanding of some topics is wrong and maybe it's just that it's now about 1:30AM here and I have my week where you can think of so I should get to bed instead of writing this (which I will do in a minute). Still, the call of nature was strong enough for me so I had to tell someone. And as I said at the beginning of the post, please, keep all this between you and me

P.S. I was totally sober when writing these lines

I don't believe that only companies on the stockmarket have to publicize their figures. Every company has to pay corporate taxes and so figures have to be presented. Companies have to be registered as a company in what we call "chamber of commerce". So stardock cy has to be registered somewhere.
If WC has to become a selfsupporting part of the company then I would like to have some insight in how big the costs are and not just some fingerwork in threads here but cool hard facts. I don't mind people making money, I do mind when oilprices go up just to milk the commonm people so to speak. Eventually, the balance sheet will tell the story so that's why I wanted to have a peek. Even our chessclub has to account for membership raises.

Lecrayon....Stardock would [I assume] have an accountant.
Between the 'Directors' [CEO/whatever], the 'Accountant', and the 'Govt. Tax Office' - numbers would be disclosed.
However, only ONE of those 3 'entities' is entitled to divulge information to the public if he/she so WISHES...and it is not the Accountant, or the Tax Office. If they did they'd be out of a job quick-smart.

Private Business is EXACTLY that.

What I CAN tell you is that according to my records I have paid Stardock about US$50 or there-abouts...to help pay for Wincustomize.com [while getting neat Tee-shirts and CD compilations], and Stardock has paid for EVERYTHING you see here...and it's a LOT of money.....

Asking for financial statements from a private entity is both intrusive and rude. Would you care to post yours for our perusal?
I thought not...

No, it's not rude. I can here ask for EVERY business the results they make. That is if they are registered at the chamber of commerce...IF I would have a business you could get my results on instant Jafo, but I haven't got one That's the way it is in this capitalistic world. And so it should be. However, if you run your business where for instance your own assets are a guarantee to the bank for loans, and you run it on your own you STILL have to be registered as a business, but you are able to withhold the resultys from the public. That only goes if ONE person run the business. IF you have personnel you are accountable for other people and you have to submit your results. Why I asked? I am not aware of how things are settled in the US, but it is certainly NOT rude and NOT intrusive. Far away from that.

In case of supporting this site and the great cool programs that it delivers you could easily check what I have done, what I subscribed to and what I have bought. And also check the dates and the start of some threads. Just to ease your curiosity and my honest behaviour. As it comes to subscribe to WC and get a year of guaranteed access..I havent gotten an answer about what happens if the site closes halfway, I bet my subscription isn't returned for 50%..So IF you want to subscribe, people may want to have a look at the healthyness of the business. Cold hard facts. No promo's by staff of any other who are biased, just a way to decide for yourself if it is worth the money. To get a program like skinbrowser and say that that alone is worth the subscription...It isn't if the site closes down..You get the idea? If you ask for money to maintain a site, people want to have guarantees in exchange of cold hard facts. Nothiong more, nothing less. Not intrusive, just a means of being able to have a judgement of your own about the continuity of the business...Not rude, just the american way. Bang for your buck all the way.

OK, so you wish to know intimate details of a Company's financial status in order to ascertain whether it is 'safe' to pay $20 for a subscription to a site on the net?
Sounds logical.

So the concept of providing simple financial support...to give a little 'back', in appreciation for what you have been allowed to 'take'....requires Financial Statements....an audit perhaps for the last financial year?

The guy on the corner with the tin cup....he better have a bank statement pinned to his forehead....just in case someone doubts his status and wants to know what he's been doing with the dimes and quarters...

I'll refrain from further comment...and leave it to Stardock to respond....

Blah Jafo you know that's beside the issue...My question isn't answered...business is business..no suppport but buy and deliver, that;s about it.

Lecrayon - you didn't have to plunk down the $20. The subscription is voluntary, the site is open to use whether you pay the money or not. I don't know what point you're trying to make. Do you ask Kraft for a prospectus every time you buy cheese?

"Love is in the air, everywhere I look around..."

Lecrayon - I wouldn't expect any busineaa to respond to a question like yours in a forum like this. Especially in a thread like this one. As with any business, if you want financial information about the company, you should send a request in writing to their business office. As far as I know, there's no requirement that they respond....

hmmm... how did I hit the 'a' key instead of two ss's? I'm sure it's just a typo and I wasn't subconsciously trying to spell something else...

DavidK, it got out of hand, I admit...I asked where I could find such info, I explained how it is done here in NL, asked just how rules are about that point in the US and assumed it was a bit alike our system...never got any answers and sooo....

and sooo...the question still stands..and email adresses are available I believe

DavidK: you probably couldn´t resist to download Babya System. now you got the results ....

. No lacrayon, in the United States, private companies are the same as private individuals. They don't have to disclose anything.

It's irrelevant anyway. It's what one would call a strawman argument. It is hard to argue that Object Desktop (and components) customers should subsidize non-customers unlimited downloading indefinitely.

In my view, anyone who has downloaded more than 50 megs of stuff from this site should, at the very least, have an Object Desktop subscription, if not a WinCustomize subscription or be a skin author or active contributor in some other way.

Besides, the information you are requesting is made available for investment purposes, not routine purchases. Because Stardock is a private company, disclosure is not necessary.

finally the info, thank you...See? that wasn't too hard..Reading is so awfully difficult and so many times people pick one line, make a fuzz out of it and forget the overall situation...I accept the way how you see it Frogboy, I too would think subsidizing non-customers would be out of the question..Anyway, I happen to think it's a sales argument against a strawman one (whatever that means). You are in your right to run your own company the way you think is best and to promote it the way you want it. the programs are cool and the site is technically so good I take a deep bow for that achievement. I happen to think a bit different about this costcontrolling argument but then again the profits I would make will be lower than average

True. It is a 2 way street. It is only nice. My goodness... so much drama..... in the end, it still has to be a 2 way street. I personally do not mind subsidizing non-customers. I really feel this is a good product and the more productive input the better. The more skins the better. Unlimited downloading for non-customers... well if the limit is 70 a month then so what. I do not think anyone will notice. I get more skins, Stardock gets more people, and the cycle goes on.

more skins, more people, more people invited to skin, more people have skins on there desktop, more people see the skins, more people buy the product, more people download for free, more skins, more people, more people invited to skin.......