Defense issue

from Elemental Forums

I am not sure if i am getting mechanics of game well, but it seems that: 

the way damage is calculated now means that basically once you are hit the damage is always happening, though a minor one. It leads to situation, that if you are attacked by an unit with attack of 4 it does not matter whether you have 30 or 300 defense. 300 defense give you huge bonus when you are facing creature that have over 200 attack, but is as useful as defense of 30 against units with little attack .. Drives me crazy when my super unit with stone skin etc. with a huge defense still suffers from a militia useless clubs ... They should not even scratched it, or do it rarely. We had the problem already that the damage would never happened, and it was boring. Now for me it is a new extreme, when you are hit way too often. A high defense is of no useful for the most of time. And it is illogical that armor that is 30x tougher, behaves the same way with low-level units, and only shows its power again epic monsters ... 

Possible solution: it is a little bit way around. What if very high defense, particularly in case where the difference between attack and defense is significant, would reduce a chance of being hit as a dodge does ? In fact, that what would exactly happen, a hidden bonus to dodge. Unit would be hit less frequently, but if hit it would still take some damage. This way some proportion would be maintained. 

 

 

6,032 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I think I recall that Frogboy said that the way this works was being changed in the next patch.  He's introduced a "Clink" attack that harmlessly bounces off.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm, perhaps the proportional difference should affect the 'clink' chance?

 

Personally though, I don't mind there being a distinct *difference* between a questing army (good for killing super beasts), and a warfare army (better to handle the mass of peasants with)

So personally I don't have too much of a problem with it :)

I think the *main* problem is not enough HP in general (at least at low levels) which causes a severe glass cannon syndrome in 0.86

--> I think the glass cannon problem is more easily solved with HP (and dodge?) than armor.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

My problem is not what army is good for, but that stats are meaningless .

The difference between 20 or 200 attack/constitution/dodge/hp or anything else matters ALWAYS, whereas defense only in few situations. Part of problem of glass cannon is that defense is non-factor, it is easier and faster mass pump spearman then invest in armor. 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

The defense issue rarely happens. For 100 armor (which is exceedingly high), you need a unit (single soldier, actually) with ~10 attack to deal less that 1 damage. Armor values rarely get over 40, and attack values rarely get under 10; I'd rather they keep something that almost always work than replace it with something that almost always doesn't.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

In my most recent game, before i even got into the late game, i have had 11 earth shards and believe me LOTS of my troops had a very high defense. 

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Is there any info on how attack/defense and damage works now?

I see that common units can't hit champs and monsters that hard, but could not figure out the relative strengh.

Still, it's strange that a basicly armored unit will die to a relative easy-to-get hard hitter paper unit, thus giving the impression that armor is just a waste of resources, at least early-mid games.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

This will be changed in beta 3 according to Fb. No sense in learning the outdated system for defense.